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The "Hiding" God Print E-mail
By James V. Schall, S.J.   
Tuesday, 25 January 2011

Over Christmas, I reread John Paul II’s Interview with Vittorio Messori, Crossing the Threshold of Hope. I had forgotten what a remarkable book this is. The pope is frank, honest, intelligent, and, yes, soul-stirring. The book is a good review of the whole of faith and reason, a theme John Paul II later developed in Fides et Ratio. But I was particularly struck by the chapter entitled, “If God Exists, Why Is He Hiding?”

In previous chapters, the pope made a persuasive case for the existence of God – “Does   God Really Exist” and “‘Proof’: Is It Still Valid?” What struck me about Pope Wojtyla’s response was something I had seen in one of Msgr. Robert Sokolowski’s essays, namely, that the real problem with God is not His existence but His Incarnation. People are rather comfortable with a “hidden God.” What makes them nervous is when He makes Himself quite clear, especially when they do not want to hear it or live by it.

Descartes defined existence and thought together. For Aquinas, however, it is existence that comes first and limits or defines thought. God was rather a mystery. “If He were not Mystery,” the pope remarks, “there would be no need for Revelation, or, more precisely, there would be no need for God to reveal himself.” By his own intellect, man cannot know the fullness of God, only that He exists.

Many think that God’s whole existence should be obvious to any human mind, no matter how dull. Such a proposition brings God down to the level of the human intellect. It makes man to be God. In such a case, God would no longer be God. The God that exists rather shows to intelligent creatures what He wants them to know about Himself. But God does reveal Himself directly by becoming man. He does this in His own way. “[He] became man in His son and was born of the Virgin. It is precisely in this birth, and then through the Passion, the Cross, and the Resurrection that the self-revelation of God in the history of man reached its zenith, the revelation of the invisible God in the visible humanity of Christ.”


         Christ Blessing by Giovanni Bellini, c. 1500

The Apostles wanted Christ to show them the Father. Christ told them that He did show them: “The Father and I are one.” This almost seems to be exactly what contemporary man wants. “But this immediacy is not the knowledge of God ‘face to face,’ the knowledge of God as God.”

At this point, John Paul II wonders what more could God have done to make Himself known to us? “In truth it seems that He has gone as far as possible. He could not go further. In a certain sense, God has gone too far.” This sentence particularly struck me. God revealed too much of Himself to us!

Why suspect this? Because Christ, the Son of Man, became a “stumbling block” to Jews and “foolishness” to others. This reaction happened when God came out of hiding: “He (Christ) called God His Father, because He (Christ) revealed Him so openly in Himself. The impression was that it was too much.” This is a novel thought. We object to God not because He is hidden but because He is light, intelligible in His very dealing with us.

The problem of God, we moderns think, is His existence. But in fact the major problem lies elsewhere. Almost all people in history have believed in God’s existence. Even atheists who deny it try to prove a negative. They always end up with their own “proof” that God does not exist, which proof is uncomfortably itself a divine claim on their part.

Man could not accept God’s revelation in Christ. “This protest has precise names – first it is called the Synagogue, and then Islam. Neither can accept a God who is so human.” The inner life of God and His concern for us had to remain hidden. The Incarnation was the dangerous thing. By revealing too much of Himself in his Mystery “He was not mindful of the fact that such an unveiling would in a certain way obscure Him in the eyes of man, because man is not capable of withstanding an excess of the Mystery.” Man does not want to be overwhelmed by the Mystery.

But the “hiding” God went ahead and revealed Himself in Christ. Only in Christ could He insure that the divine plan for each of us could be achieved, the plan to see God face-to-face. How paradoxical then is John Paul II. God revealed too much of Himself! Best He should remain in hiding. This is the objection to God more and more defining our era. His Word, His Son, became man, suffered, died, was buried, and rose again.


James V. Schall, S.J.
, a professor at Georgetown University, is one of the most prolific Catholic writers in America. His most recent book is The Mind That Is Catholic.
 
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written by Bill, January 25, 2011
I usually defer to you, Fr. Schall, but not on this one. "Almost all people in history have believed in God's existence." God is triune. Do Jews and Muslims believe in a triune God? "He who has ears let him hear." Christ knew from the beginning that there was/is an Elect and these were meant by the Father to be saved.It all breaks down when we indulge in ecumenical conversations with people who will not be saved. There is no religion called Christian-ity yet there are thirty thousand christian sects. Assisi III is coming up and more confusion will prevail. The popes cannot tell us if Medjugorje apparitions are true. And a pope actually wrote about "Hope"?
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written by Achilles, January 25, 2011
Fr. Schall, thank you for beautiful words again!
Bill, words of division and dispair. Do you really discount the possibilites where God's grace is concerned? Perhaps the currents of modern scientific thought has carried you too far afield. Pray for me, Achilles
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written by Grump, January 25, 2011
Funny how God 'shows himself' to some but not all. If there were a loving God, who treated all his creatures fairly, then he would not have said, "I will bless those whom I bless and curse those whom I curse." Right off the bat, some never had/have a chance. Pharaoh, i.e., born for one purpose only, to act as the "bad guy," while Moses was the "good guy." Examples abound in Scripture of characters who are formed by God simply to play assigned roles in his Grand Play, totally obliterating any notion of free will. The man born blind just so Jesus could show off his miracle powers. The sick, poor and hungry -- all relegated to secondary roles, a hopeless 'supporting cast' in which the main players -- the believers and bless -- are allowed to chew the scenery.

Many Christians, including some Catholics, believe in Calvin's idea of predestination; that God willed eternal damnation for some people and salvation for others. And when we are told to pray, "thy will be done on earth and in heaven," we are forfeiting any free will. Ominiscient God, then, makes mincemeat of the idea that we can decide our own fate; he's already decided ahead of time so that no matter what we do or say, we are destined to be dealt with like so many robots, whose switches have been preset to function in a way that accomplishes his will.

Man's wisdom may be foolishness to god, but from where I sit, belief in God (small or big G) depends solely on his whim and has absolutely nothing to do with what a person is, says or does. He has already decided who he will reveal himself too, and, if you're lucky you will be one of the few. The rest are simply bit players and props to be used and discarded to suit his purposes.

I know people, myself included, who earnestly have sought God all their lives and never find him, who have lived good, moral lives and who listen to the Sermon of the Mount and say, so when are all these promises going to be fulfilled? And then they die without fulfillment why the unrighteous continue to prosper and reap all the rewards. Faith, then, is mocked. Why believe when belief is never warranted? Why love when love is unrequited?

God, as the hound of heaven, supposedly 'hunts' us down and supposedly offers his hand to clasp. But for some that hand is never extended. Which is why god, to me, will remain a beautiful but unreachable phantom..
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written by Bangwell Putt, January 25, 2011
I cannot address a person as "Grump" but to you, Sir or Madame, I would like to respectfully submit a question: As you have searched for God all of your life, in what way or form did you expect He would reveal Himself? In what negative events or circumstances was your original faith destroyed?
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written by Achilles, January 25, 2011

Dear Grump, I can well understand your frustration, I spend 40 years seeking in vain. All you say seems be from the empirical scientific point of view. Augustine said "I believe that I may understand." Our world is the 'I have to see it to believe it' and it seems as if you have fallen into this very human trap, the world appears to be flat. Seek and you will find, so far as you submit your will to the will of the father, a decrease of the self is the only way. If we seek in the wrong way or in the wrong place of course we will only find despair. A new look at the Beatitudes with the help of St. Augustine would be a wonderful experience if you are able to check you self at the door. St. Augustine has two short books and at least two sermons on the Beatitudes and they are full of beautiful explanations and clarity using Christ's words and the Old Testament. Get them, read them with a humble heart. Pax Christi tecum!
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written by Achilles, January 25, 2011
P.S. Grump, God is only an unreachable phantom when we demand evidence on our terms. The conversion of a heart has no weight and no measure, the understanding if it ever finally dawns is invisible and unmeasurable. It is for us to conform to Christ, not Christ to conform to us.
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written by debby, January 25, 2011
i think what JP 2 said makes perfect sense: God revealed too much of Himself. "Behold the Man." Meditate on the gaze of Jesus upon the person; the times when it is recorded, "He looked upon,....." He has made Himself completely vulnerable to us; self-absorbed, self-oriented, self-consumed creatures who are "over-sexed but fearful of intimacy." we must almost be heroic in the midst of this time period & culture to gaze back and begin to know Him, let alone love Him in return.
"why love when love is unrequited?" writes grump.
funny, how grump, who says he has no faith, needs to struggle thru his lack almost daily on this site. i come from the other side; i love Him so much i cannot contain myself....
who says "love is unrequited?" what on earth is your definition of love? if any part of this statement is true, it is because we do not love Love back.....He loved us first, He chose us, He sent His Son.
go read the following and get back to all of us:
I Believe in Love (by a Priest on the Spirituality of St. Therese), The God Who Loves You (P. Kreeft), Loves Sacred Order (Erasmo Leiva-Merikakas), The Two Pillars: Gratitude and Contrition (S. Biela). reading in front of the Blessed Sacrament is the best place. and don't forget to pray, "open my heart to hear You, to receive sight...."
my dear grump, YOU HAVE A CHOICE. just like the rich young man in the Gospel. Love loves you whether you requite His love or not. please, you are "too old" to feel so sorry for yourself.
and as far as bill goes (please, don't you two ever get together!), Jesus did not die for "some." that is heresy. if you believe He only died for some, you must be a very fearful man for your own soul as well as hoping none of your beloved ever have any children for fear they will not be one of His chosen. oh please! Calvin tried that centuries ago. you make God out to be so cruel as if where you spend eternity is a scene from the movie Sophie's Choice. What human father could just chose one child, let along God Who IS Love, a God Who spent Himself for the very sake of saving each one of us? NOTHING supports that "special club" mentality. only those who surface read the Bible come to such cursory conclusions. you choose to respond to or reject Him, He does not condemn you.
and didn't you know that HOPE is a Theological Virtue? or is that not in your religion?
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written by Other Joe, January 25, 2011
Grump - You are speaking from a point of view, and yet existence is greater than any point. With a very slight shift of perspective, everything changes. If you are to be taken at your word, then what you say is meaningless as is your life. The only reason anyone would pay attention is because you are here. If you are here, you risk having your point of view shifted. No argument can penetrate circular reasoning. But you should consider your own experience. You should consider why you bother to note your thoughts in this forum. Love exists. I imagine that you have seen it. Love cannot be compelled - only invited. Walking and talking with Jesus was not enough for Judas. Without free will there is no narrative and no love. The gift and cost of individual consciousness is doubt. Faith is an act as well as a grace. Love.
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written by Nick Palmer, January 25, 2011
I find Father Schall's ruminations especially interesting in the light of an article from the October 2010 issue of First Things by Rabbi Meir Soloveichik entitled "Torah and Incarnation." In the article Rabbi Soloveichik describes how for the devout Jew, Torah and the study of Torah are the way humans can reach across the chasm between God's divine nature and our earthly, corporeal one. (I know I'm doing an awful job of capturing the author's point, but...) He contrasts this with the Christian belief in God incarnate in the person of Jesus Christ. As Father Schall notes, this incarnation is wholly unacceptable in the Jewish and Muslim traditions of an unapproachable, ineffable God.

I heard a radio preacher describe Christ's coming as, in some small part, God showing us how a God-like human would behave -- a role model. Prior to the Incarnation, we were called to follow God in the law, but had no other way of projecting how we ought to behave save that law. Jesus Christ, by his example, fulfills the law while providing a clear model for our own behavior beyond the law (WWJD?).

I think...
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written by Grump, January 25, 2011
Indeed I am the clay and he is the potter and he has fashioned in me one who believes that he exists but does not believe in him. This may sound novel because most atheists deny god's existence. I don't. I say he exists, but plays favorites (notwithstanding that he is alleged to be "no respecter of persons). For evidence, I point to the blessing/curse quote from the OT. Free will is an illusion if Someone is pulling the strings.

Jesus said, 'Ask anything IN MY NAME and it shall be done." In fact, this does not happen to all who ask, even to a minority; perhaps a small fraction. For those few who think they have prayers answered, it enhances belief and hope. To those who have not had prayers answered, it fosters disillusionment and despair. God expects us to be faithful yet he provides no cause for that faith when he fails to 'deliver' on his word. Yes I know we're not supposed to pray for our wills, but for his. But see the contradiction? If his will supersedes ours, then why bother trying to exert ours? We are not 'free' to do so. The 'choice' mentioned by Debby is not really a choice at all, but a sort of command: DO IT MY WAY OR ELSE! OK, so point the way. There are way too many paths to follow.

Our lives boil down to what Santayana said, "I am, plus my circumstances." Those of you fortunate to have found peace and joy, I envy you. As for those of us who still seek, we have not necessarily given up, but as the sands in the hourglass run out, hope vanishes with the last grain.

As for my blindness to what you see, I hereby quote Thomas Hardy, my favorite author: "There is a condition worse than blindness, and that is, seeing something that isn't there."
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written by Grump, January 25, 2011
P.S. To the "other joe"...This forum is one of the view that tolerates dissent in a civil manner. I respect all those who post because they do so in such a way as to not impugn the motives of others.
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written by Brad Miner, January 25, 2011
Grump: God plays favorites? No he doesn't. What you are missing - IMHO - is faith. Yes, I know you know that, but I mean that when Jesus, God incarnate, speaks of doing whatever is asked for in His name or about moving mountains, He is talking about what is possible for those whose faith is true faith, whose love of God has placed them in humble union with Him and His will, not just those who use His name carelessly. And our liberty? His omniscience in no way negates our freedom: He knows what we'll do before we do it, because He has infinitely indexed the possibilities. Too many ways? No, because Christ showed us the Way and the Truth and the Life, which is Christ Himself. It seems to me you are carrying the wrong burden, not His cross but your own project of enlightenment. It's not God you believe in but you believing you believe in Him. If you truly believe, you'll give yourself to Him, not cling to your own version of Him. Do you really believe your view of God trumps His love for you? We are all sinners, and we are all confused, but He is love. He, the Creator of all of this, wants you more than you don't want Him. -Brad
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written by Louise, January 25, 2011
Last Holy Thursday night, our old friend R. came to spend the night on his way to New York after giving some lectures at a college in Vermont. He was my husband's best man at our wedding, 55 years ago, brought up a Unitarian but with no contact with any church in his adult life--which included a very successful career in the medical profession. He had been here the previous year with his daughter, and we had had a somewhat heated discussion about abortion because his daughter mentioned that she had been an abortion counselor, and "the stories I heard from those poor girls, just broke your heart and . . .", and, of course, our anti-abortion stance was OK for us, but the church had no right, etc. etc. etc.

On this visit, however, after breakfast, we matter-of-factly picked up our "Christian Prayer" books. I had an extra book with pages marked and I showed him how to follow along and join in if he wanted. We proceeded to say Morning Prayer. I believe that his "That was nice" at the end was sincerely meant.

Later, as the conversation proceeded, he said, "I've done a lot of thinking about religion, and I've concluded that it is all a myth." Silence. My husband and I continued with our coffee and one of us said, "How's Nancy getting along?" (His wife)

The conversation continued on general lines, and then he said, "My Jehovah Witness neighbor comes over every now and then and we sit on the porch and have really interesting discussions. I love a good discussion about religion." Again silence. Then, "To what exotic place will your next vacation take you? How did you like Cyprus?" And the conversation proceeded.

When he was just about to get into his car to leave, I said, "R., I just wanted to explain to you. Being Catholic is not something we pick up on Saturday night and put down on Sunday afternoon. Being Catholic is not something we do. It is not something we practice. It is not something we debate. It is not something we think. Being Catholic is something we are. Being Catholic is what we are when we do the dishes, when we clean the barn, when we feed the sheep or trim their hooves. Being Catholic is what we are when we sleep and when we shovel the driveway or weed the garden or trim the shrubbery. It is what we are. Period." I gave him a kiss on the cheek, told him to give our love to Nancy, and sent him on his way.
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written by Achilles, January 25, 2011
Dear Grump, forgive me if I am accosting you, my comments are less astute than all others who have responded to you, it is just that I know so well your mindset becuase I have only recently been liberated from it. The liberation, much to my surprise was not through the mind, but the heart. I would reccomend The Screwtape letters and the Imitation of Christ and then a return to Christ's own words. I am not so articulate, but I empathize greatly. Pray for me, Achilles
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written by Bill, January 25, 2011
To Nick Palmer, et al. Louise did us all a great service by reminding us of Belloc's work "The Great Heresies" which I had studied in college. I would suggest you "google" the item up and read it on line. It's easy. Belloc describes Mohammedanism(sic) as a heresy which became a "religion".
Trained Catholics know that Judaism ended with Christ as He is the Meschiach (Messiah) promised in the Hebrew (Old) Testament. With all due respect to the Rabbi whom Nick Palmer cites, his information is out of date and, quite frankly, irrelevant. THAT is the reason no pope ever visited a synagogue for 1980 years! It wasn't anti-semitism. What could they possibly say? They could not even share, "How's the wife?" Belloc treats with the Reformation as well. Radio preacher? We have Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition and the Magisterium of the Church to teach us.
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written by Nick Palmer, January 25, 2011
And, Bill, we have blogs. I listen to you, and I'll listen to any who have something helpful or challenging to offer. Do you object to my rendition of what he said, or merely that I'd cite him?

And, I'll find the Belloc piece, too. Now remind me, which is he: Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition, or the Magisterium?
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written by Grump, January 25, 2011
Brad, when God gave out gifts, he didn't give me one that said "faith" on the package.
To all of you, I hereby quote King Agrippa (to Paul):
“Do you think that in such a short time you can persuade me to be a Christian?”
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written by Louise, January 25, 2011
“Do you think that in such a short time you can persuade me to be a Christian?”

A thousand years would not suffice.
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written by Bill, January 25, 2011
No harm is ever intended, Nick. My purpose is merely to assist any Catholic who might be led astray by someone who does not possess the credentials to teach orthodox Truth. Remember the injunction from Christ (which applies to ALL of us): "If the blind lead the blind, don't both fall into the pit?". The "pit" is error and, if not corrected, Hell.
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written by Brads Miner, January 25, 2011
Grump: My last word on this: It's not about "me" or "you"! If there's persuading to be done, the Holy Spirit will do it. If, that is, you are willing to be persuaded. -B
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written by Grump, January 26, 2011
My last word, possibly for good on TCT: Thanks for all your sincere sentiments. I may hang around from time to time to read the articles, which are interesting, and to view the comments, which are usually thoughtful and well-meaning. While I remain open to persuasion, I must remain the pessimist. God "hardened Pharaoh's heart," and he hardened mine, too. A long peaceful sleep is all I ask for. Good luck to all!
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written by debby, January 26, 2011
dear grump,
there's a guy you might want to speak to...i'm asking him to speak to your heart and to speak on your behalf. maybe you can listen for his call or knocking. he can be found hanging on a cross, a cross he fully "deserved" for all the sins of his life, looking at the One next to him. i'm asking him to steal Heaven for you as well.....don't give in to the spirit of the guy on the opposite side. please?
"the same son that grows the grain, hardens clay..." its what you are made of. He made you for Himself and Heaven. but you know that already.....xo, debby
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written by Nick Palmer, January 27, 2011
Bill, what irked me, and continues to do so, is your casual dismissal of both the rabbi and the "preacher" without ever engaging their perspectives. Pope Benedict XVI seems willing to engage the world in dialog, as did JP II. What this world needs is strong, confident Catholicism. Neither strong nor confident should lead to arrogant.

What if instead of "radio preacher" I had said a Franciscan friar on EWTN? Would you have listened. And, how, if you met the rabbi in person, would you engage his perspective on the importance of Torah, especially the Pentateuch, in helping us to bridge the gap between us and God? Or, would you simply run away shouting "Heretic" or perhaps with crossed fingers chanting "Jesus, Jesus, Jesus"?

Forgive the sarcasm, it's bred of annoyance. Try reading the rabbi's article in First Things. Some pretty savvy, well-educated, and strong Catholics are behind First Things. They appeared willing to engage in dialog. Perhaps it would help you to do the same. Please don't forget that, while Catholicism is the fulfillment of God's relationship with mankind, this does not imply that all other faith traditions are 180-degrees wrong. Why, from time to time my "renegade" pastor even allows readings from the Pentateuch at daily Mass. And he appears to do it with the sanction of both Cardinal O'Malley and Pope Benedict XVI. Horrors?
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written by Louise, January 27, 2011
Dear Mr. Palmer, (if you are still checking in). Re: you comment:

"And, I'll find the Belloc piece, too. Now remind me, which is he: Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition, or the Magisterium?"

Some time back (I have no idea how long--some weeks go by over night some nights take a whole week to go by; time is elastic), Pope Benedict XVI reminded us that there is only one institution that can or should be referred to as the "Church". Other so-called denominations are more accurately referred to as "ecclesial communities." Jesus founded one Church, so, as Belloc said, "There always has been and always will be the Church."

The Holy Father's remark never got much play in the Catholic or secular press, probably because it did not meet "tolerant" or "politically correct" standards, and I think a few people objected to it on those grounds.

Perhaps Mr. Miner or someone can correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the title of this blog taken from Belloc? He's a pretty clear thinker.
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written by Brad Miner, January 27, 2011
Louise: 1) Yes, TCT gets its name from Belloc; 2) but we eschew the "blog" designation. :) -Brad
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written by Louise, January 27, 2011
"2) but we eschew the "blog" designation. :) -Brad

Of course you are not a blog! I should have said "website." My sincere apologies.

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written by virtual, August 25, 2011
God is hiding and does not answer prayers, because they are egoistic. If you carefully study the prayers of all religions you will notice the following:

1. Praise the lord, sort of acknowledgement for His greatness
2. Request for favors (since you are so great give me this give me that)

No religion addresses God directly, asking for Him not his favors.

Prayers don't work, and god doesn't answer them because he has already given everything, his own house and went himself into seclusion, cause every religion forgot to invite him, or were afraid that he will take their power and dominion.

God is hiding because we are afraid of him (her). Adam was, Moses was, Jesus was. All the prophets were busy constricting god in them only. They know God, the secret knowledge. Through them you are saved. They all taught us to glorify and pray to God, but they never told us to invite Him, because they would not be important anymore. They say "come to the house of God" when in fact only men abide therein. The same with Ka'ba in Mecca, it is the house of God, but its empty. How come the houses of God are open for everyone but the One is not allowed in.

No wonder God is not coming, why should he? No one misses Him. People are busy being his advocates, prophets, substitutes, sons and daughters, and servants, in other words his replacement. All the prophets from Adam to Muhammad claimed vicegerency.

No one cares about God; all they care is his provisions: paradise, a life without worries, to be the chosen few, when 99 % of creatures are burning in hell.
All they want to know is his tricks, the tree of knowledge, eternity, so they can wrestle with him and finally challenge him, but only after they have become as powerful as him.

This is the legacy mankind has left to its sons and daughters. Slay your son for the sake of God. In fact slay your son so you can become God, remembered by all generations to come. No wonder God abandoned Adam, no wonder the Father forsake Jesus on the cross. He wanted to become God, let him bear the cross of shame for all eternity!

They say Jesus is coming back, Mehdi is coming back. Jesus and Mohammed failed once and they are going to fail again. Hitlers and Bin Ladens are coming instead, and soon enough God himself is coming in the most wretched form because that’s what we made of him and that's what we deserve!

What a shame!

O God! Come home 'cause we are idiots! Our hearts suffer from constipation! I'm tired of saviors. Thank god there are no more prophets! Now it’s your turn, come home because no religion and no prophet can replace you! I miss you so much. They say eyes will burn if God shows. What a sham! They are burning anyway. I am blind anyway; I don't need my eyes if I can't the Source! The one that invited me into existence. I'd be ashamed if I didn't invite It too. I am waiting for none except God himself, the master of all, the source of all being the Generous!
People are busy arguing about God who is right who is wrong and pray to God for provisions but they all forget to invite God!

Mankind has no conscience, they even ask God to teach them how to pray to him. Well he already made you once in his own image. If you can not figure it out yourself then forget about God.


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