Comments for The Catholic Church and the Death Penalty at http://www.thecatholicthing.org , comment 1 to 21 out of 20 comments http://www.thecatholicthing.org Sat, 18 May 2013 16:11:48 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2009/the-catholic-church-and-the-death-penalty.html#comment-14150 "Abortion, according to the Church, is wrong because it destroys innocent human life. Capital punishment is permissible because the first duty of the state is to maintain order for the common good." Very tidy. However countless souls have been wrongfully convicted and executed. No worries though, that single line in the CCC has got it covered. - WIll Thu, 01 Nov 2012 05:28:58 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2009/the-catholic-church-and-the-death-penalty.html#comment-12747 Pope Benedict, then-Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, had a major role in drafting the 1992 Catechism and, especially, its 1997 revised passages. When he told journalists about the changes in 1997, he said while the principles do not absolutely exclude capital punishment, they do give "very severe or limited criteria for its moral use." "It seems to me it would be very difficult to meet the conditions today," he had said. - wjkolar Sat, 04 Aug 2012 17:09:28 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2009/the-catholic-church-and-the-death-penalty.html#comment-5542 the squeamoos fastidious pusillaminous plastic prelates is the blind leading the blind their christology of a feminized christ who would not swat a mosquito achrist with the heddy lamar eyes is a travesty that is why the murders are on the street corners of every medium sized municpality in this land right now eccl. 8:11.the noahic covenant has never no never been abrogated. - shamgar Tue, 28 Dec 2010 06:36:33 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2009/the-catholic-church-and-the-death-penalty.html#comment-1675 Those who wish to abolish capital punishment also need to recognize that the deliberate denial of the necessities of life to someone, such as denying food to those who refuse to work, is a form of capital punishment, practically speaking. In other words, time limits on eligibility for welfare or unemployment compensation are forms of capital punishment. This is especially unjust, given that there is no requirement to prove guilt first. - blue8064 Wed, 06 May 2009 06:37:00 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2009/the-catholic-church-and-the-death-penalty.html#comment-1674 Knowing Mr. Marlin as I do, I can tell you there\'s never anything "tired" about his arguments, and an attentive reading of his column confirms his acknowledgement of the opposition to capital punishment of individual Catholics, including popes and princes of the Church. His point is simply that the assertion by some that the Magisterium opposes the death penalty per se is false, and that's the truth. - Brad Miner Tue, 05 May 2009 20:38:32 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2009/the-catholic-church-and-the-death-penalty.html#comment-1672 What makes you think Gov. Ritter is faithful Catholic? He is far from it. And he still is allowed by his Archbp. to receive the Eucharist. Shortly after taking office, Ritter restored state funding for Planned Parenthood, signed legislation that requires all Roman Catholic hospitals to distribute emergency contraception to rape survivors, pledged that he will not seek to appoint judges who oppose abortion rights. For more of this sad story go to: http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/kralis/080818 - doris roland Tue, 05 May 2009 19:17:12 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2009/the-catholic-church-and-the-death-penalty.html#comment-1673 The moment of death is the penultimate moment in life. How we pass through its door determines our destination. If we approach it with contrition we ultimately see God. If not we go to hell. The death sentence for unrepentant "lost" souls can be an opportunity for conversion and get them ready to meet their maker with sorrow for what they've done. If they're left to rot in a prison with a life sentence they may end their lives unprepared. The salvation of souls is the Church's ultimate mission. - JediGraz Tue, 05 May 2009 19:15:33 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2009/the-catholic-church-and-the-death-penalty.html#comment-1670 I'm personally opposed to the death penalty, but don't think that the case of Fr. Geoghan (a convicted pedophile accused of molesting 130 children) makes a particularly compelling case for supporting it...unless, of course, you propose the death penalty for unrepentant recidivist pedophiles who rape innocent children. - John T Tue, 05 May 2009 14:47:43 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2009/the-catholic-church-and-the-death-penalty.html#comment-1669 The conditions for capital punishment are not met in the United States? Our prisons are already full, and here in Oregon they are full of the most violent offenders. With a Depression likely coming at us tax revenues are falling rapidly, and we are very likely to have a severe spike in violent crime. Crunch time is coming. We cannot afford new penitentaries. My guess is that we will resort to something like prison camps plus increasing use of the death penalty. - Lee Gilbert Tue, 05 May 2009 14:47:14 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2009/the-catholic-church-and-the-death-penalty.html#comment-1668 Bravo Mr. Marlin. Now if only you or somebody could convince Father Richard McBrien of the shallowness of the seamless garment ploy this world might be a better place in which to live. - Bill Tue, 05 May 2009 14:46:39 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2009/the-catholic-church-and-the-death-penalty.html#comment-1667 In his penultimate paragraph, Mr. Marlin confuses war as such with particular wars. War as such is not intrinsically immoral, but a particular unjust war is. Likewise, killing as such is not intrinsically immoral, but killing in abortion is. If a particular war is unjust, it must be opposed, just like any other act of murder. - Christopher Zehnder Tue, 05 May 2009 14:46:29 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2009/the-catholic-church-and-the-death-penalty.html#comment-1666 #3 Andrew, You wrote "catholics in America should oppose (the death penalty) because the conditions in which it is justifiable are not met in the US. I am curious as to what "narrowly defined conditions" you, and Cardinal O'Connor, refer. I have read the Catechism in its entirety within the past 7 months, and am unaware of anything therein beyond ¶ 2267, which seems to me to leave the determination to a 'prudential judgment.' Pax et bonum, - Keith Toepfer Tue, 05 May 2009 13:27:01 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2009/the-catholic-church-and-the-death-penalty.html#comment-1665 I served as a lieut. in the Military Polce and one of my sons is a State Trooper. NO ONE will ever understand this issue until they have met the personification of PURE EVIL face to face. Fr. John Geoghan was killed IN PRISON by another prisoner serving a LIFE SENTENCE without parole. What should that prisoner's sentence be: TWO life sentences? Please, readers. Put the toys away. The death penalty can serve a legitimate purpose. - William H. Phelan Tue, 05 May 2009 13:26:22 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2009/the-catholic-church-and-the-death-penalty.html#comment-1664 An excellent article reminding us that the Church’s support for capital punishment is and has always been, strong; regardless of the various political reasons some—Catholics and non-Catholics—attempt to make it appear that Church teaching is in opposition to capital punishment. This is an important subject and one which our organization has been examining for some time, with a book about it due out this year, validating the support of the Catholic Church for the juridical use of capital punishment to protect the innocent from the aggressor when no other means exist to do so. - David H. Lukenbill Tue, 05 May 2009 13:25:43 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2009/the-catholic-church-and-the-death-penalty.html#comment-1662 The Vatican only abolished the death penalty in 1969, so quietly no one noticed until 1971. Also, the papal states executed people up until 1870, allowing the most heinous crimes to be punished by malleting the condemned's head then slitting his throat. Traditional Church teaching has been strong, continuous and explicit on this matter. It should be made clear that it is not the teaching that has changed, but penal technology and societal wealth. - Zachary Foreman Tue, 05 May 2009 13:25:23 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2009/the-catholic-church-and-the-death-penalty.html#comment-1663 It is clear that George Marlin cares more about spouting tired Republican talking points about the "Left" than he does seriously engaging the Church's developing teaching on the permissibility of the death penalty in our current society. Does Marlin think that Archbishop Chaput, who was instrumental in gaining passage of the bill in question, is a member of the "Left"? Will he criticize the Archbishop if he chooses to speak out against Ritter's triangulating ploy to appear tough on crime? - wj Tue, 05 May 2009 13:24:51 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2009/the-catholic-church-and-the-death-penalty.html#comment-1661 Of course, the conditions still pertain in the US. What about murder in prison? Are not those prisoners also our brothers who should be protected from persistent murderers? What about paroled murderers who murder again? Lastly, the reason it will never be taken off the table in the US is that we do not know that we will not live in a state of nature even 100 years from now, like they do in many parts of the world. Good column, George.... - Austin Ruse Tue, 05 May 2009 13:24:10 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2009/the-catholic-church-and-the-death-penalty.html#comment-1660 A.M.D.G. The death penalty is a very difficult issue. We would like to think it is no longer needed with the advent of high-tech, maximum security prisons. However, what about the inmates and prison guards who have been injured and killed by convicts who are serving life terms and have absolutely nothing to lose? It may be that there are some in our society who are so dangerous that allowing them to live poses grave risk to others. That is why the Church leaves this decision to the state. - Terence Tue, 05 May 2009 13:23:35 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2009/the-catholic-church-and-the-death-penalty.html#comment-1657 I agree that according to the Church it is not intrinsically wrong, however, given the circumstances (means) of the US, it isn't right, as you mentioned JPII mentioning. So, catholics in America should oppose it because the conditions in which it is justifiable are not met in the US, as O'Connor said, "formal official Church teaching does not deny the right of the state to exercise the death penalty under certain, narrowly defined conditions." These conditions are not present in the US. - Andrew Tue, 05 May 2009 09:31:52 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2009/the-catholic-church-and-the-death-penalty.html#comment-1656 The seamless garment has never been a doctrinal argument and has never denied the church's teaching on the death penalty. It certainly does not equate it with abortion. It simply argues that the church and the faithful must take great care whenever human life is involved, and must protest when it is used unjustly. That is why Pope John Paul II said the following on July 9, 2000: "May the death penalty, an unworthy punishment still used in some countries, be abolished throughout the world." - Bradley Tue, 05 May 2009 09:31:15 +0100