Comments for An Affectionate and Respectful Objection at http://www.thecatholicthing.org , comment 1 to 60 out of 20 comments http://www.thecatholicthing.org Fri, 24 May 2013 15:37:45 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2009/an-affectionate-and-respectful-objection.html#comment-2080 I cannot believe, although given the Smithsonian censorship in the mid 1990's I suppose I should, that people still adhere to the notion that the bombs were dropped to end the war. They were dropped to demonstrate to the USSR what military might we had. The Japanese were third party victims in the first shots of the cold war. Even if one could excuse the bomb on August 6, which I don't believe you can, dropping another atomic bomp on August 9 cannot be justified in any way shape or form. - Daniel Mon, 08 Jun 2009 17:07:57 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2009/an-affectionate-and-respectful-objection.html#comment-2077 Dymphna: That's a great caricature of the neoconservative, means-justifies-the-ends, warmongering, survival of the fittest, might-makes-right, jinogoist, nationalist-fanatical, national-interest-trumps-natural-law position on war! To bring out the absurdity of that way of thinking by clearly expressing it is itself a great argument against it. Thank you for showing just how anti-Catholic and irrational this way of thinking is. - Thaddeus Mon, 08 Jun 2009 13:58:55 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2009/an-affectionate-and-respectful-objection.html#comment-2059 I'm really sick of the Hiroshima and Nagasaki wailing. The war is over and we won, thank God. The Japanese were insane and willing to fight to the death. The bombs convinced them to quit. A war is not over until one side no longer has the will or ability to fight. I often wonder if the Hiroshima whiners wish that American soldiers had gone house to house killing eveyone inside because that;s what it would've taken for an invasion to have succeeded. - dymphna Fri, 05 Jun 2009 10:34:00 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2009/an-affectionate-and-respectful-objection.html#comment-2055 Read Mr. Truman's degree (Anscombe). The problem with the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was that it was willful murder of civilians: of innocents, i.e. those not directly concerned in the conflict. The acceptance of killing the innocent in war paved the way for the killing of babies in the womb: we are where we are because we accepted H.& N., and other direct killings of innocent civilians in war. - JEMGEACH Thu, 04 Jun 2009 22:34:47 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2009/an-affectionate-and-respectful-objection.html#comment-2053 The Catholic position permits no exception to the natural law. The typically modern position rejects this, as expressed by Carl Schmitt: "The exception, which is not codified in the existing legal order, can at best be characterized as a case of extreme peril, a danger to the existence of the state, or the like. But it cannot be circumcised factually or be made to conform to a preformed law." Roe vs. Wade is Schmitt applied by the left, "preventive warfare" is Schmitt applied by the right. - Thaddeus Thu, 04 Jun 2009 17:18:19 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2009/an-affectionate-and-respectful-objection.html#comment-2050 JDS see willie 25 - w. williams Thu, 04 Jun 2009 16:18:27 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2009/an-affectionate-and-respectful-objection.html#comment-2049 Cheers! - Dust Thu, 04 Jun 2009 15:40:30 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2009/an-affectionate-and-respectful-objection.html#comment-2047 To Messrs. Dust and Kozinski: I wonder if it's time simply to agree to disagree? -Brad - Brad Miner Thu, 04 Jun 2009 15:00:50 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2009/an-affectionate-and-respectful-objection.html#comment-2044 Dust: I am simply identifying an ideological taint which I think best explains how a practicing Catholic could find any fault with the following statement: "The tragedies of Hiroshima and Nagasaki remain as a perennial admonition where atomic energy, used for bellicose ends." Of COURSE, America used atomic energy for bellicose ends! How could one contest this? The only explanation that can make sense of this is the American exceptionalism ideology, not any "ill-reasoning" in the Pope's message. - Thaddeus Kozinski Thu, 04 Jun 2009 14:56:36 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2009/an-affectionate-and-respectful-objection.html#comment-2046 Prof Kosinski- I presume your good faith in this discussion and ask yours in return. I would argue that your broad brush appoach is hardly accurate if your intent was to paint me with it. I found it condescending. I concur that there exists a dangerous practice of practically canonizing members of our current military and our actions by some in this country. I find it worrysome. As for terminology, I suggest staying away from politically loaded words. Ideology has no place here. With respect. - Dust Thu, 04 Jun 2009 14:56:22 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2009/an-affectionate-and-respectful-objection.html#comment-2045 Dust: I am painting with broad brush, but I do not believe anyone on this blog, including yourself, actually subscribes in a full-fledged manner to the ideology I am identifying. That would be a judgmental and very fanatical accusation on my part, one to be rightly opposed. I do think, however, that this ideology exists, and that all of us are influenced by it, and that the first means of counteracting its influence is to identify it, to name it, just as naming the demon can take away its power - Thaddeus Thu, 04 Jun 2009 14:56:09 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2009/an-affectionate-and-respectful-objection.html#comment-2042 Mr. Williams, Other than you, who said anything about "singling anyone out" unfairly or not? Certainly not the author, Mr. Wood, who quoted the sentence of PBXVI... “The tragedies of Hiroshima and Nagasaki remain as a perennial admonition where atomic energy, used for bellicose ends, ended up causing death on an unprecedented scale." ...and his objection... "But this remark is wrong and ill-reasoned, and it raises questions." I hate to single you out, Mr. W, but your comment is obtuse. - JDS Thu, 04 Jun 2009 13:18:08 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2009/an-affectionate-and-respectful-objection.html#comment-2041 Prof Kosinski- Old saying: Assumption is the mother of all screw ups. 1. You assume that because I am military I supported the invasion of Iraq in 2003, which is not the case. 2. I am incapable of discerning right from wrong because you assume I am a political conservative. Excuse me, Professor but I think your ideological underwear is showing in this thread, not mine. It is you that used political terminology(conservative) in your comments, not me. - Dust Thu, 04 Jun 2009 13:16:56 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2009/an-affectionate-and-respectful-objection.html#comment-2039 Just to clarify: Loyalty to and love of America, gratitude for the sacrifices our soldiers make, patriotism, conservatism, etc.--none of these should ever be in dispute, and a Catholic should protect his country's good name and justify the forceful defense of his country when justice requires it. What I am talking about here is something fanatical that exceeds this and borders on idolatry, an idolatry which prevents one from recognizing when one's country was and is involved in unjust violence. - Thaddeus Kozinski Thu, 04 Jun 2009 13:16:09 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2009/an-affectionate-and-respectful-objection.html#comment-2038 It isn't really fair to the Pope, we should say, to pretend as though he were singling anyone out. The point that he was making was not a particularly opaque one (whether we agree with it or not). Science represents a great power, and sometimes that power can be harnessed for massive destruction. In this contenxt, he offered Hiroshima/Nagasaki as an example of this. But it can't be called an unfair singling out because there are no other examples of such use of atomic/nuclear bombs. - W. Williams Thu, 04 Jun 2009 12:34:06 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2009/an-affectionate-and-respectful-objection.html#comment-2036 Oops, you beat me to it, Prof K - JDS Thu, 04 Jun 2009 12:33:27 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2009/an-affectionate-and-respectful-objection.html#comment-2035 Dust, Thank you for your service to our country! You are an obedient, orthodox Catholic "who" frequents the sacraments. Chris from Maryland, Exactly the point Mr. Wood was making in his article! Prof KH (as opposed to Prof KT), We finally agree on something, yes, America(USA) is exceptional, although we surely differ on the reasons for this adjective. O, and speaking of learning from the Pope, here's something you can learn from me about grammar...you misused the conjunction "but"..(TBC) - JDS Thu, 04 Jun 2009 12:33:20 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2009/an-affectionate-and-respectful-objection.html#comment-2037 Dust: Sometimes a broad brush is necessary to paint accurately. Subscribing, however unconsciously, to any regime-created, mythological narrative which cloaks naked aggression, will-to-power imperialism, and messianic violence on the part of one's regime in moral sounding phrases like "defense of freedom" and "war on terror" is tantamount to idolatry. When others do bad things to other countries, it's "terrorism" and "imperialism," but when we do it, the city on a hill, it's "a force for good." - Thaddeus Kozinski Thu, 04 Jun 2009 12:31:41 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2009/an-affectionate-and-respectful-objection.html#comment-2033 I made an error in my last post. the first part should read: If any other country did what we did militarily to certain countries like Japan and Iraq, and if the Pope had criticized these actions as being bellicose and tragic, you would probably not see conservative Catholics criticizing him for it. - Thaddeus Kozinski Thu, 04 Jun 2009 12:16:47 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2009/an-affectionate-and-respectful-objection.html#comment-2028 You paint with a broad brush Prof Kos. - Dust Thu, 04 Jun 2009 10:48:02 +0100