Comments for Ninnies, Tyrants, and those Damned Pants at http://www.thecatholicthing.org , comment 1 to 44 out of 20 comments http://www.thecatholicthing.org Sat, 18 May 2013 18:51:09 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2010/ninnies-tyrants-and-those-damned-pants.html#comment-7298 There is an obvious problem I see here. You think that you are right in your assumption that it is alright for females to wear pants. It has apparently never occurred to you that you might be wrong. The problem with this is that you are most definitely wrong. Females should not wear pants. I, being a female, and of course growing up wearing pants happen to know exactly how you feel, since I have been there and done that. I suggest that you lose the prideful attitude, and ask God how He feels about it. I guarantee you that He will not agree with your judgment. Believe it or not, my dear Catholic blogger, He does answer us when we ask Him with a sincere heart. Then and only then will you be able to hear Him. You are obviously blinded by our corrupt culture and unless you open your mind to what God wants instead of what you so desperately believe is right, you will never find out the truth while you are still breathing. It is shameful to see a Catholic acting this way toward something that is as basic as women (and girls) wearing dresses. And, no it is not okay to show our backs, either. Good grief, this is why teenage Catholic girls look like tramps while their fathers stand around looking like idiots! Wake up, man!! I wear skirts and I assure you they do not look like sack dresses. It is easy to find pretty feminine long skirts and pretty modest blouses to match. - Nancy Sun, 03 Jul 2011 22:42:22 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2010/ninnies-tyrants-and-those-damned-pants.html#comment-4855 "And more than anything else, they want to be in charge, Biblical head of the wife and all that." I'm confused - is Mr. Ruse attempting to dismiss Ephesians 5 as an outmoded conception of the relationship between husband and wife? What is his view on the matter? - David Tue, 14 Sep 2010 08:20:56 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2010/ninnies-tyrants-and-those-damned-pants.html#comment-4815 What's really odd is that half of the comments dissing women in pants says they are too sexy and and the other half says women should wear pants because they are 'unattractive' . (I'm reminded of somthing Dorothy Sayers once remarked. She was listening to some man gripe about how "unattractive " women look in pants, and she shot back, "Well, maybe they aren't all that interested in attracting you !" ) Some years ago, I heard a report on the radio of a young woman who fell asleep on a long plane flight. She woke to find a male fellow passenger attempting to sexually assault her - an assault that was prevented because the zipper on her jeans jammed. Horrific as that poor girl's experience was, if she had been wearing a skirt her attacker could gently slide up, it probably would have been a lot worse. - Donna Fri, 03 Sep 2010 12:02:59 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2010/ninnies-tyrants-and-those-damned-pants.html#comment-4804 Oh, I am dying to link to something hysterical for you to read but I'll respect your wishes and not. Do Google "My New Wife" and "Dan Lord" if you are looking for some hysterical commentary along these lines. God bless! - Justine Wed, 01 Sep 2010 18:25:34 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2010/ninnies-tyrants-and-those-damned-pants.html#comment-4801 Saint Gianna Molla (1922-1962) was often photographed wearing pants. So the Vatican scandalizes once again. And she was a physician! What would she think of surgical scrubs?? The interesting thing about her is that her pants were groundbreaking, at the time. She drew on no tradition to wear such a thing. Imagine what some Catholics must have said about her behind her back at the time. And someone should tell St. Joan of Arc that the whole armor and cutting your hair like a man thing is a big problem. - St. Fashionista Wed, 01 Sep 2010 09:01:21 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2010/ninnies-tyrants-and-those-damned-pants.html#comment-4800 Gianna Beretta Molla wore pants, and is a canonized saint of the Catholic Church. That's enough authentic tradition for me. I read Dressing With Dignity and loathed it. Aside from the cloying tone, there are major problems with her arguments. Some of the claims she makes about the history of fashion are not true, and I think her approach of taking the 1918 papal directives on dress and making them binding for all Catholics in all times and all cultures shows a poor understanding of the virute of modesty and the structure and hierarchy of Church authority. This, by the way, is coming from a young Catholic woman who wears knee length dresses 90 percent of the time. - Clare Wed, 01 Sep 2010 07:55:40 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2010/ninnies-tyrants-and-those-damned-pants.html#comment-4799 My point, Mr. Cathelineau, is that the comments of the Archbishop of Genoa, who died in 1989, are hardly proof of "Catholic tradition" regarding the propriety of women wearing pants. Perhaps there is an encyclical you can cite? Non Pantsum? - Austin Ruse Tue, 31 Aug 2010 18:04:28 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2010/ninnies-tyrants-and-those-damned-pants.html#comment-4797 By the way, only men with Scottish blood should wear kilts. And there should be a law enforcing this. - James Cathelineau Tue, 31 Aug 2010 06:33:04 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2010/ninnies-tyrants-and-those-damned-pants.html#comment-4796 I am sure that Cardinal Siri would make distinctions. For instance, traditional forms of male dress that have the same form as a woman's garment (a Scottish kilt, a priest's cassock, a friar or monk's tunic) are male forms of dress, not female forms. The same would apply to garments from non-Western culture. I'd trust the disciples of Cardinal Siri more than I would trust the disciples of Maciel running the "Pure Fashion" program. Not that I doubt the latter's good intention. It would have been a better development under the guidance of Catholic tradition. I would also suggest that in a discussion of these matters we might learn something from the Eastern Orthodox tradition. The first time I heard the issue raised, it was by a Greek friend of mine, whose sister had received from a priest a list of sins for her to use to prepare for confession. Among these were "dressing as a man." She asked what this meant. The priest replied, "Cutting your hair, wearing pants, wearing shirts with collars." - James Cathelineau Tue, 31 Aug 2010 06:27:23 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2010/ninnies-tyrants-and-those-damned-pants.html#comment-4793 Wonderful, Mr. Ruse! I could not agree more. The only "private information" a woman reveals by wearing slacks is that her legs are not connected, mermaid-like, to the knee or the ankle (or, indeed, all the way to the feet). Since this is something any intelligent man could deduce merely by observing a woman's capacity for movement, even if she is wearing the most modest of ankle-length, heavily opaque, and flowing of skirts, I can't help but think that any man capable of being either shocked or stimulated by the confirmation of this hypothesis (as it appears in a pants-clad female form) is a ninny indeed. - Erin Manning Mon, 30 Aug 2010 17:04:02 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2010/ninnies-tyrants-and-those-damned-pants.html#comment-4792 To Brad - thank you... From SJM - SJM Mon, 30 Aug 2010 16:22:39 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2010/ninnies-tyrants-and-those-damned-pants.html#comment-4790 I have often thought about switching to exclusively wearing skirts and dresses, but I run into a few problem. #1--What do I wear when I go running? A skirt is not really practical! #2--I teach young kids, and that means it is frequently necessary I sit on the floor. I find this to be difficult to do modestly in skirts and especially dresses. In pants, I find I have no problem worrying what might become uncovered when I sit on the floor. So until I can resolve that, I'm hanging onto my pants. - Ashley Mon, 30 Aug 2010 08:37:31 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2010/ninnies-tyrants-and-those-damned-pants.html#comment-4788 To SJM: I believe Austin Ruse indicated the message in question was an email, not a blog. -ABM - Bradr Miner Sun, 29 Aug 2010 19:04:16 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2010/ninnies-tyrants-and-those-damned-pants.html#comment-4787 I've googled "regarding not wearing pants" but to avail - could anyone tell me what address to use to access the blog? - SJM Sun, 29 Aug 2010 14:18:51 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2010/ninnies-tyrants-and-those-damned-pants.html#comment-4786 I am sure the Archbishop of Genoa was a wise and holy man. He, however, does not in and of himself represent "authentic tradition", at least with regard to the wearing of pants. I will point out that the ninny-tyrant who wrote the offending email actually defended men wearing skirts. Presumably Cardinal Siri and the author of the post above would also object to that. - Austin Ruse Sun, 29 Aug 2010 13:50:56 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2010/ninnies-tyrants-and-those-damned-pants.html#comment-4785 I appreciate Jackie's comments above. She is a young woman who understands why pants are antithetical to a sacramental worldview and a civilization of love. The question of women wearing pants is the same as the question of men wearing saggy pants - neither should adopt the trend. The question is: Where does the any trend come from? A Culture of Life or a Culture of Death? Saggy pants comes from prison culture. Draw your own conclusions. Women wearing pants comes from the marxist currents of feminism that seeks to eliminate the idea of intrinsic nature to the person, and complimentary of the sexes. If as Catholics we are trying to recover an authentic Catholic Culture, we need to be able to evaluate trends in the culture and make judgements that reflect the mind of God - the cosmic order - and not some current fad arising from a culture of death. As someone who works in young adult ministry, I tell young adult to imagine they are living in a Civilization of Love and then dress accordingly. That culture is splendorous and beautiful because it is rooted in a deep understanding of the cosmic liturgy and what it means to be a man and a woman, it is not banal or androgynous or ugly. In that culture women will not wear pants - not because there is a garb police, but because to wear pants is to reject the full splendor of being a woman. It is like the People of God holding onto their idols after the return from exile in Babylon - eventually the idols get tossed. Women wearing pants is an idol. The next time you are with a group of women, just mention that you think that women shouldn't wear pants and just watch the reaction. It might be a similar reaction to saying that you think homosexual acts are intrinsically evil, as that too is an idol of our culture. In the 2000 years of the Catholic Church, women have NEVER clamored for the right of ordination until they started wearing pants. A coincidence? We are sacramental people, our clothing is a sign of invisible realities. In Scripture we see that what is holy is veiled. There is a sacramental reason why women wear skirts and dresses. Their bodies are touched by God in a way men's bodies are not. This is significant. It is the same reason why men should wear dignified hats. Their heads are anointed in a significant way in which women's heads are not. In short this issue shouldn't be about curves, defects or ninnys etc. it is really about the ability of the People of God to recognize themselves and their culture as being called to a higher more splendid standard. - Columcille Sat, 28 Aug 2010 20:28:44 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2010/ninnies-tyrants-and-those-damned-pants.html#comment-4783 Alas, like many American Catholics, Mr. Ruse responds out of his own limited perspective rather than turning to the sources of authentic tradition. I would suggest that readers seeking wisdom turn instead to the following: "Notification concerning Men's Dress Worn By Women" by Giuseppe Cardinal Siri. Here they will find the following wisdom: "Firstly, when it comes to covering of the female body, the wearing of men's trousers by women cannot be said to constitute AS SUCH A GRAVE OFFENSE AGAINST MODESTY, because trousers certainly cover more of woman's body than do modern women's skirts." He moves to the more important issue: "In truth when relationships between the two sexes unfold with the coming of age, an instinct of mutual attraction is predominant. The essential basis of this attraction is a diversity between the two sexes which is made possible only by their complementing or completing one another. If then this "diversity" becomes less obvious because one of its major external signs is eliminated and because the normal psychological structure is weakened, what results is the alteration of a fundamental factor in the relationship." "The problem goes further still. Mutual attraction between the sexes is preceded both naturally, and in order of time, by that sense of shame which holds the rising instincts in check, imposes respect upon them, and tends to lift to a higher level of mutual esteem and healthy fear everything that those instincts would push onwards to uncontrolled acts. To change that clothing which by its diversity reveals and upholds nature's limits and defense-works, is to flatten out the distinctions and to help pull down the vital defense-works of the sense of shame." "It is at least to hinder that sense. And when the sense of shame is hindered from putting on the brakes, then relationships between man and women sink degradingly down to pure sensuality, devoid of all mutual respect or esteem." "Experience is there to tell us that when woman is de-feminised, then defenses are undermined and weakness increases." - James Cathelineau Sat, 28 Aug 2010 11:32:25 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2010/ninnies-tyrants-and-those-damned-pants.html#comment-4782 I DID receive this email. I stayed on the author's organization's mailing list in spite of the scandal of his breakup of his marriage, but when I read that one, it was the last straw. I de-subscribed to the email newsletter. To me it seemed that the whole thing involved projection of this man's temptations onto the women he sees. It WAS creepy! I'm a middle-aged woman, and I often wear skirts, but they aren't always practical. I remember Dorothy Sayers writing once about trousers as a natural and practical form of clothing for a two-legged creature, male or female! Moreover, not every dress is modest, and not every pair of pants is immodest. I see many older women in my parish wearing pants, presumably for reasons of comfort. Let's be adults and use our common sense. - Jeannine Fri, 27 Aug 2010 19:33:50 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2010/ninnies-tyrants-and-those-damned-pants.html#comment-4781 Austin makes an excellent point when he talks about the epidemic of wonderful unmarried Catholic women--except that it is not just women. There is an epidemic of singleness among highly marriageable young Catholic men and women in their prime family-building years. Basically, if you're a serious Catholic who wants to marry another serious Catholic, without special intervention of providence, you are not going to get married for long, long time. It's emotionally and spiritually devastating for long-term singles, and a whole generation of Catholic children will never be born. I find it ludicrous that we are talking about pants when there is a much more urgent problem before us. - Bob Trujillo Fri, 27 Aug 2010 18:20:33 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2010/ninnies-tyrants-and-those-damned-pants.html#comment-4780 Women look better in dresses/skirts; men look better in pants. Not that there are any physical reasons why each can't wear the other. - kkollwitz Fri, 27 Aug 2010 17:50:25 +0100