Comments for Pro-Life Naïfs in the Big City at http://www.thecatholicthing.org , comment 1 to 29 out of 20 comments http://www.thecatholicthing.org Thu, 23 May 2013 05:29:58 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2010/pro-life-naifs-in-the-big-city.html#comment-5402 The fact that you refer to "pushing" contraception as though it were an illicit narcotic demonstrates how distant you are from understanding any concept of a plausible middle ground. It would be laughable if it didn't lead to massive numbers of unplanned pregnancies for unprepared, uneducated young people. There is clearly progress to be made there: pregnancies avoided equals abortions avoided. When you disregard the evidence of general human sexual behavior you mark yourself as an ideologue, who ought not to be invited to the table. - Guest Thu, 02 Dec 2010 20:16:55 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2010/pro-life-naifs-in-the-big-city.html#comment-5299 "The problem is pro-lifers come to discuss in the first place- our position is absurd. At least we should be them, documenting their views- pro-aborts are war criminals. Nazis. Imagine Rabbis sitting down with SS? This is the problem, they are murdering psychopaths and sane people will NEVER ever, nor should they, communicate with them. " This post is as chock full of sanity as it is of grammar. I'll tell you a secret... you communicate with pro-choicers every day. In fact, statistics indicate that you communicate with people who've had abortions every day. You LIKE some of them. I mean, if you ever leave your basement, that is. - Guest Thu, 18 Nov 2010 12:41:46 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2010/pro-life-naifs-in-the-big-city.html#comment-5151 There were two main problems, apart from the "prolife" personalities involved, that were all too predictable ahead of time. One, the fatuous premise that we are obligated to listen to Obama's cloying notion of "fair words". There is a place for dialogue but not with Peter Singer who is someone who consciously promotes abortion, infanticide, and euthanasia, and even less with Frances Kissling, who claims to be a Catholic and proposes that these things are Catholic teaching. Second, and related, the format of the meeting did not allow for direct targeting of a single, main pro-abort proposition between Singer and either Finnis or Robert George. The panel structure made for more of a pillow fight atmosphere rather than the serious intellectual contest it should have been. - Susan Mon, 01 Nov 2010 18:11:09 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2010/pro-life-naifs-in-the-big-city.html#comment-5149 Pro-Life people have to do their homework and be very tough-minded, or they're toast, and do a disservice to the cause. I cringed when I saw this meeting scheduled on EWTN's calendar - "lambs to the slaughter" is what I thought, and that's what it was. Jesus warned us "I send you out into the world, therefore, ye must be wise as a serpent, and gentle as a dove." Too often, church people skip the first part, because they don't want to think about dark, evil things. But that's what you're dealing with - you're talking to people who think it's OK to kill other people. And by the way, they plan to assassinate your character, so that they can rhetorically/politcally kill our spokesmen as well. Sleepers awake!! There's a war out there - and NARAL, Singer, Planned Parenthood et al know that we are their enemy - so they are waging war on us. What are we going to do??? - Chris Boegel Mon, 01 Nov 2010 13:58:46 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2010/pro-life-naifs-in-the-big-city.html#comment-5143 Whoever the experts on the Pro-Life side are, they definitely need to be making themselves heard at these kinds of events... I ran into this all of the time at college, the cultural and/or moral conservatives vastly under-represented and outgunned. It contributes to the habit of the left and further-left thinking and feeling that their positions are much stronger than they actually are. It's frustrating for common people and for students who have the good sense to oppose abortion, but perhaps not the ability to articulate well for their side... it's high time intelligent conservatives stand up consistently and champion their side. We can't afford to sit on the sideline on this one. - Wil Sun, 31 Oct 2010 11:49:18 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2010/pro-life-naifs-in-the-big-city.html#comment-5136 Similar to the way the tea party activists get their pockets picked. Lack of academic rigor and logical consistency. Trying to stick up for the Truth within the Americanist rhetorical framework is a tough battle. - Emmett Sat, 30 Oct 2010 17:43:25 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2010/pro-life-naifs-in-the-big-city.html#comment-5128 The problem is pro-lifers come to discuss in the first place- our position is absurd. At least we should be them, documenting their views- pro-aborts are war criminals. Nazis. Imagine Rabbis sitting down with SS? This is the problem, they are murdering psychopaths and sane people will NEVER ever, nor should they, communicate with them. - Jane Fri, 29 Oct 2010 20:46:14 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2010/pro-life-naifs-in-the-big-city.html#comment-5124 I did attend the conference, however my critique is slightly different. I came away convinced that it was the mingling of activists with academics that dragged the conference down. It was sad to see a debate between Singer and Finnis, both esteemed philosophers in their own right, hijacked by questions that weren't about honest inquiry but merely political gestures. - Amanda Fri, 29 Oct 2010 12:56:17 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2010/pro-life-naifs-in-the-big-city.html#comment-5122 From Dr. Camosy's office website: The ethic of Peter Singer and a Christian ethic are thought to be diametrically opposed, but my thesis is that this polarized understanding is a mistake and that a close and charitable reading of the two approaches shows that they are similar enough for both fruitful and mutually-critical correlation. Indeed, I argue that they can work together for peace and justice on many different kinds of issues—from combating global poverty to the liberation of non-human animals. I will wager you are looking at someone readily suborned. (What the young people call a 'tool', I believe). - Art Deco Fri, 29 Oct 2010 09:06:49 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2010/pro-life-naifs-in-the-big-city.html#comment-5119 Most centers start off with a single persons efforts and sacrifices. Hastings center started in the callahans living rm. The bioethics center referenced has an extensive network of healthcare experts unparalleled for it's niche. This article should be pulled from this publication. It's an embarrassment for the writer and publisher, not the conference organizers. - Tim ward Fri, 29 Oct 2010 06:02:36 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2010/pro-life-naifs-in-the-big-city.html#comment-5117 Austin's column is absolutely accurate in every respect. I sat through this entire conference, and frankly, based upon everything I heard and saw, I find Austin's column and even his criticisms to be exceedingly charitable. The absolute lowest point of this conference, in my opinion, occurred during a panel called "Providing Support for Continuing Pregnancy," in which the supposedly pro-life voice on the panel essentially blamed conservative Christians for the abortion culture. He argued that the large number of abortions stems from the fact that "conservative Christians don't talk to their kids about birth control." The panel also seemed to concur that "pro-life tax-cutters" are to blame for all this, and that the solution is simply more government programs, including citizens' tax dollars going toward free birth control for all. At the very least, there should have been someone on the panel to argue the opposing view, but sadly, there was not. - Seana Fri, 29 Oct 2010 05:00:48 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2010/pro-life-naifs-in-the-big-city.html#comment-5115 It doesn't help any cause to be woefully under-represented and unprepared to do battle with the big guns on the opposition -- unless your David. The question is, to stick with your Yankees analogy: If your pitching staff isn't going to show up for the game, should you even play? - Kathy Fri, 29 Oct 2010 02:53:13 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2010/pro-life-naifs-in-the-big-city.html#comment-5113 I think you mean constructive criticism which this is not. Hurrah for these successful efforts to unite over 500 people in dialogue. Who else has created space for a doctor who performs abortions to sit with a picketer. - Ellen Thu, 28 Oct 2010 20:58:12 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2010/pro-life-naifs-in-the-big-city.html#comment-5112 This debate would not have occured without these two. The credit belongs to the ones actually in the arena. - Mark Thu, 28 Oct 2010 20:50:17 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2010/pro-life-naifs-in-the-big-city.html#comment-5111 The credit belongs to those actually in the arena- these two are quickly becoming experienced veterans and very well respected- they and are to be congratulated not publically ridiculed. Poor article. - - Thu, 28 Oct 2010 20:47:41 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2010/pro-life-naifs-in-the-big-city.html#comment-5110 Aristotle rightly observed long ago, in Book One of The Rhetoric, that "true things and just things are naturally superior to their opposites," and that, therefore, if the audience's verdict is not what it should be, the fault lies with the advocates for truth and justice - who failed to prevail despite the advantage their side had. Like Mr. Ruse, I also did not attend the debate; but like him and Aristotle, I agree with the principle that any advocates for the pro-life side who failed to present the best arguments are at fault. The solution is certainly not - as some have suggested - to avoid such debates. The solution is to put forward our best advocates and arm them with the best preparation. What Lincoln said about slavery is equally true about abortion: it "is an evil, and an evil cannot bear being discussed." So I say the more abortion is debated, the better it is for truth and justice - and the worse it is for abortion's future -- especially provided, however, that we have able and well prepared advocates on the pro-life side. - Lee Thu, 28 Oct 2010 18:37:20 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2010/pro-life-naifs-in-the-big-city.html#comment-5109 By the way, I have only ever criticized pro-lifers when I think they deserve it. The first case was a column I wrote here against Randall Terry. This conference was so problematic that it, too, deserved strong criticism. Many, perhaps most, of the pro-lifers in attendance might possibly agree. Pro-lifers cannot be immune from criticism. We are strong enough and large enough as a movement that we should be able to give and take such criticism. We are in a fight for lives; nothing is more important than that. - Austin Ruse Thu, 28 Oct 2010 15:48:47 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2010/pro-life-naifs-in-the-big-city.html#comment-5108 Answering "Concerned Pro-Lifer".... 1. Three of my staff members attended the conference and came away deeply disturbed by what they saw. 2. I personally watched several of the panels on video. 3. I also interviewed other people who attended the conference including one Catholic academic who was angry at what she saw. 4. My contacts say most of the pro-lifers they spoke to at the conference were upset precisely along the lines I describe above. I stand by what I wrote but would welcome a response from the organizers or others who want to use their own names. - Austin Ruse Thu, 28 Oct 2010 15:35:05 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2010/pro-life-naifs-in-the-big-city.html#comment-5107 Found this on Google search of "John Finnis Pro-Life'. *John Finnis is Professor of Law and Legal Philosophy in the University of Oxford and the Biolchini Family Professor of Law at the University of Notre Dame. This piece is adapted from his remarks delivered at the conference “Open Hearts, Open Minds, and Fair-Minded Words,” held on the campus of Princeton University on October 15th and 16th, 2010.* Read it to be agreeable that Mr. Finnis is no light-weight. Good he was there! - Howard Thu, 28 Oct 2010 14:18:48 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2010/pro-life-naifs-in-the-big-city.html#comment-5106 I find the tone of this column to be more than a bit discouraging. I guess we should forget about working so hard to have a face-to-face conversation with those on the other side and simply lob pot-shots in the blogosphere. - concerned Thu, 28 Oct 2010 12:03:05 +0100