Comments for St. Michael, Pray for Us at http://www.thecatholicthing.org , comment 1 to 15 out of 15 comments http://www.thecatholicthing.org Thu, 23 May 2013 16:42:21 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/st-michael-pray-for-us.html#comment-5899 Mr. Miner - I'm surprised at no mention of (what I believe) is the most naked canard laid against the Church in "The Rite", namely, that the Church would compel a seminarian to pay back the cost of his seminary education if at the end he decided that Holy Orders was not for him. Such a practice amounts to coercing a man into the priesthood, and that surely cannot be good for the priesthood. In fact, I think the Church requires that seminarians pay for their education as they go - either through loans or personal funds - so that this coercion cannot occur. - Thomas G. Wed, 02 Feb 2011 09:12:43 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/st-michael-pray-for-us.html#comment-5888 Thank you for your response, Mr. Grump. I found that poem shortly after "my buried soul" was watered by the Blood of Christ and we had returned to the Church That return was not exactly for the second time. Our first conversion (1971) lasted about 11 years, when we left our Father's House (1982) to wander around in no-man's land. It was an arid, desiccating experience. If I shocked my husband (2002), I shocked myself even more when I said to him, "I want to go to Christmas Eve Mass." And that was the beginning of our journey home. It was a moment of pure grace poured out on my dried-up soul for which I was unprepared. When I say, "waters my buried soul and makes it grow", I really, really mean it. God be with you. - Louise Tue, 01 Feb 2011 03:29:27 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/st-michael-pray-for-us.html#comment-5887 I echo Louise Grump, I was very glad to see you this morning! I wish I could sit down with you and hear your story, your earnestness is very telling. Pray for me, Achilles - Achilles Mon, 31 Jan 2011 18:13:29 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/st-michael-pray-for-us.html#comment-5886 Dear Louise: Thank you, my dear, for your kind thoughts. As a betting man (though always a loser), I may take up Pascal on his wager yet. After all, what do I have to lose, but eternal life? And the alternative is kind of scary, although somehow I feel I would be welcomed with open arms. Consider it progress if I make it to being "A Laodecian," which God still would spew from His Mouth. But lukewarm would represent an advancement, if that's the right word, toward salvation. - Grump Mon, 31 Jan 2011 16:44:45 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/st-michael-pray-for-us.html#comment-5885 Brad, Thanks for your response. The mention of the westernized demons was tongue in cheek, but it does seem that possession here is less dramatic than in Third World countries, perhaps because it fits in more with the demonic strategy here that "God is dead." In other words, that there are no spiritual realities whatever. My assumption re "African priests" is that it seems far more likely that they have had actual experience with exorcisms than American priests have. It would probably be true of a priest from Haiti or Vietnam, for that matter. Evil spirits figure prominently in those cultures, or such is my understanding. I'd be very interested to know your source for this comment: "But the main thing: the Church teaches that only approved proclamations by one ordained to make them - and only in the name of our Savior - will banish demons." It does say at CCC 1673 "The solemn exorcism, called a 'major exorcism,' can be performed only by a priest and with the permission of a bishop." That of course leaves open the possibility of minor exorcisms being performed by other persons, and does not touch the question of effectiveness. The Decree on Ecumenism does say, does it not, "Nor should we forget that anything wrought by the grace of the Holy Spirit in the hearts of our separated brethren can contribute to our own edification" (Section 4). From what I have seen, which is plenty, there are Pentecostals who know very well how to cast out Satan in the power of the Holy Spirit and in the name and in the blood of Jesus Christ. This is a resource that we ignore to our own great loss. - Lee Gilbert Mon, 31 Jan 2011 14:50:14 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/st-michael-pray-for-us.html#comment-5884 Lee: I suspect it's a mistake to assume that demons are acculturated, and - in any case - it seems illogical to suggest that a "priest from Africa" would do better in an American exorcism. But the main thing: the Church teaches that only approved proclamations by one ordained to make them - and only in the name of our Savior - will banish demons. - Brad Miner Mon, 31 Jan 2011 13:31:45 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/st-michael-pray-for-us.html#comment-5883 Mr. Grump, I am so glad you are still with us. On my way to Mass yesterday, this poem )that I loved so much that I memorized it) came into my mind and I thought that it summed up the discussions that resulted from your previous posts. This is my gift to you. (The author, according to my book, is that famous "Anonymous", but in other translations I have seen it attributed to a 15th c. Spanish monk. [Dear Mr. Miner, please forgive the detour--it's for a good cause.] The poem is called Sonnet to Our Lord on the Cross I am not moved to love thee, O my God, That I might hope in promised heaven to dwell; Nor am I moved by fear of pain in hell To turn from sin and follow where you trod. You move me, Lord, broken beneath the rod Or stretched out on the cross, as nails compel Your hand to twitch. It moves me that we sell, To mockery and death, your precious blood. It is, O Christ, your love that moves me so, That my love rests not on a promised prize, Nor holy fear on threat of endless woe; It is not milk and honey but the flow Of blood from blessed wounds before my eyes, That waters my buried soul and makes it grow. - Louise Mon, 31 Jan 2011 13:30:29 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/st-michael-pray-for-us.html#comment-5882 A number of years ago some Vietnamese told us that when they first came to the USA, one day they looked at one another in astonishment and said, "There are no demons here!" Apparently it was not uncommon to see obvious cases of demonic possession in Viet Nam, but here no. Of course when we heard this, our prayer group just laughed. They are here alright. Secondly, when you consider how large a proportion of Jesus' ministry was taken up with exorcism, something is obviously the matter now in terms of the place that exorcism occupies in the life of the ordinary priest. Correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding is that for a person to get a priestly exorcism now he would first be put through the mill by being sent to a psychiatrist for evaluation, etc., etc. filling out forms etc., etc. getting the bishop's permission etc. etc.. Psychiatrists are such spiritual experts, you see. We know that from the recent scandal. If I wanted an exorcism now, I would go to the Pentecostals, or to a priest from Africa. They strike me as spiritual men, who are as experienced in dealing with spiritual things. It seems unlikely the devils in Africa have been westernized yet and that African priests would know what to do. Maybe I'm wrong, but one thing, I certainly would not go to a psychiatrist. And so it is that many of our people here and in South America wind up as Pentecostals. Our clergy and intellectuals write this off as surrendering to emotionalism, but no, a person will go where he can find help. There are lots of people here in the USA who are in the throes of sexual addictions, extreme depression, various other addictions, that is to say in the grip of the devil. For them, there is very little help within the Catholic Church. The are legion, but if they go to the rectory, they will come out with the phone number of a psychiatrist. - Lee Gilbert Mon, 31 Jan 2011 12:54:00 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/st-michael-pray-for-us.html#comment-5880 The very air we breath is toxic with the fumes of the 7 deadly sins rising off the rotting corpse of decency, whom we murdered out of envy. We have spent so many generations building our self esteem on sand that we have lost sight of our fallen nature. The resultant discontent is cognitive dissonance as the chasm between the truth and the propiganda shoveled on us widens. I heard Peter Kreeft say something like "Freud said that he noticed that in our society where we spend so much energy to become content, the more things we get for contentment, the more disontented we bocome." (My butcher job, sorry Dr. Kreeft) Kreeft goes on to say "But Freud was only one step away from St. Augustine's answer 'our hearts are restless until they rest in Thee'." Read again THe Screwtape Letters, The Snakebite Letters - Achilles Mon, 31 Jan 2011 06:47:51 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/st-michael-pray-for-us.html#comment-5879 Great column, Brad. I remember vividly seeing the Exorcist when it came out and being scared out of my wits even before it started. Amazing marketing. It remains an iconic movie. It should be noted that Blatty has really embraced his faith in recent years. I have seen him around Washington DC at various religious dinners. I also have read and highly recommend Hostage to the Devil by Malachi Martin. I read it years ago and remember being so scared, I put a chair under the front door of my apartment...to keep the devil out. Go figure that. - Austin Ruse Mon, 31 Jan 2011 06:09:04 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/st-michael-pray-for-us.html#comment-5878 Grump: The Lord did give the power to his disciples (see Mt. 10:1). I think it's safe to say, however, that watching "The Rite" will have no effect one way or another on the demons inside anybody. -Brad - Brads Miner Mon, 31 Jan 2011 05:52:55 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/st-michael-pray-for-us.html#comment-5877 I thought only Jesus could drive out demons although maybe he gave this power to his immediate disciples. The Exorcist was a good film, but poor theology and, as one who would like to be a Catholic Christian, I fear that watching The Rite would only keep the demons within me from taking flight. :) - Grump Mon, 31 Jan 2011 05:29:00 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/st-michael-pray-for-us.html#comment-5876 Decades ago, I was making visit to the exorcist of the San Francisco Archdiocese (for an entirely different reason), a Jesuit named Fr. Patzelt (who had been a German seminarian drafted into the Werhmacht as a medic, fought on the Eastern Front and survived mainly because upon capture, the Russians instead of shooting him, put him back to work as a medic -- he thus survived the war, and became a Russian rite Jesuit.) While I was there, he received a phone call from San Jose,the subject of which was klatch of devils which he was having difficulty exorcizing. "I'm getting tired of driving down there. I'm coming down there one more time to rid of these devils once and for all!" I mean the guy was having a routine conversation like he was discussing the stock market, but in this case the business was Legion. All part of normal work day for Father Patzelt. - Yezhov Mon, 31 Jan 2011 05:06:35 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/st-michael-pray-for-us.html#comment-5873 Postscript. When you see my entry above, you will understand why generations of Catholics from the 1920s to the 1960s lived such pious lives. They did not contracept (most of them), divorce was shunned and abortion was unthinkable. They went to confession frequently and over 70% attended Mass each Sunday. Jesuits gave retreats on the Four Last Things (Death, Judgement, Heaven or Hell). Now you understand why. They believed in the Apparitions which were deemd worthy of credence by the Church itself. Our Lady gave Lucia the Third Secret which was to be released no later than 1960. Fifty years later, it has still not been released in its entirety. Be alert and prayerful! - Bill Mon, 31 Jan 2011 01:23:14 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/st-michael-pray-for-us.html#comment-5872 Thank you for a great film review, Mr. Miner. "The Lady showed us a great sea of fire which seemed to be under the earth. Plunged in this fire were demons and souls in human form, like transparent burning embers, all blackened or burnished bronze, floating about in the conflagration.....amid shrieks and groans of pain and despair, which horrified us and made us tremble with fear. The demons could be distinguished by their terrifying and repellent likeness to frightful and unknown animals, all black and transparent......" Fatima in Lucia's own Words. This book was published in 1976 and contains an imprimatur from the bishop of Leiria, Portugal. - Bill Mon, 31 Jan 2011 01:06:23 +0100