Comments for The Other Jesus(es) at http://www.thecatholicthing.org , comment 1 to 11 out of 11 comments http://www.thecatholicthing.org Mon, 20 May 2013 23:11:21 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/the-other-jesuses.html#comment-6239 Thank you Dr. Royal for a most interesting piece. And thank you to those commenting on Dr. Royal's column. All of the comments are thoughtful and illuminating. It is a pleasure to be far from home, as I am today, and find an old friend, The Catholic Thing, and familiar names, sharing heartfelt comments to ponder - a worthwhile respite. - Ray Hunkins Mon, 07 Mar 2011 12:40:54 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/the-other-jesuses.html#comment-6238 "At the risk of sounding like a broken record," Sound it often, Mr. Coleman, Jr,, as often and in as many places as possible. Might I recommend, once again, Hilaire Belloc's 1938 "The Great Heresies", especially chapter 7, 'The Modern Phase' (the text is available on line). He says exactly what you are saying, giving originas and carries it forward. I recommend that book as often and in as many places as possible. - Louise Mon, 07 Mar 2011 11:20:55 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/the-other-jesuses.html#comment-6237 Louise, thanks for the "back story." I find the poem very moving as well. For such tender words to penetrate this old crusty curmudgeon's heart must be a sign that there's a sliver of hope for me yet. - Grump Mon, 07 Mar 2011 11:05:11 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/the-other-jesuses.html#comment-6236 I have been convinced for years now that many people are losing their faith over these issues, and in a very insidious way. Christmas after Christmas, Easter after Easter, family holiday after family holiday co-habiting couples, atheistic uncles, lesbian aunts and apostate nephews are perfectly welcome to share in the feast. And it is killing us. As pleasant as it might be, familiar and easy fraternization with people who have left the faith or live in open sin is a betrayal of the faith. On this issue, many Catholic families have a controversy with God, for as convenient as it would be for there to be only a few verses in the Bible, the fact that Jesus ate and drank with sinners is nothing pertinent to this situation. He came as a physician to heal the sick, meaning in context people who were spiritually sick, that is, sinners. And though he “ate and drank with sinners” he was often very discourteous so far as the world views courtesy. He rebukes his host, “You gave me no kiss, you did not wash my feet, etc.” He was not afraid to set the Pharisees teeth on edge. He spoke of Heaven and of Hell with great force. He was not the ideal guest, you could say. I doubt very much that anyone would be welcome in our homes in that character. That is to say Christ and His teaching are increasingly unwelcome in our homes, and for decades it has been scandalous to bring children to many family gatherings. The focal point of our decision making is always on “the lost.” How unchristian, unloving, judgmental not to invite them. “You catch more flies with honey, etc” “How will they ever come back to the faith if we cut them off, etc.” Yet, they are not coming back to us, we are going over to them. “Your eyes have only to look…” That is what is happening. We are not concerned about the innocent being scandalized, but about the guilty being offended. We prefer to pretend that they have not left us in every important way. We prefer to keep up appearances rather than face reality. Somewhere in Newman’s vast Parochial and Plain Sermons he addresses this painful situation, and he says scripture is very much on the side of separating ourselves from such people. The reality is very different, of course. They have separated themselves from us. When are we going to stop pretending that nothing happened? When are we going to stop tolerating the intolerable? - Lee Gilbert Mon, 07 Mar 2011 11:04:50 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/the-other-jesuses.html#comment-6235 At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I must point out that this creation of a parallel, counterfeit chruch that would substitute the goal of social justice in this world for the goal of Salvation was the objective of the Marxist plan for infiltrating the Chruch beginning in the 1930s. Not only did some Commuist agents enter seminaries, but others cultivated relationships with Catholic scholars and college adminsitrators and convinced them that Communism and Christianity are compatiable. Banished were Divini Redemptoris and all truly Catholic satements on socialism and Communism; these were replaced with "dialouge" with the sworn enemies of Holy Mother Church. These phenomena did not arise spontaneously. We are powerless against these forces if we refuse to name them. - Thomas C. Coleman, Jr. Mon, 07 Mar 2011 10:32:46 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/the-other-jesuses.html#comment-6234 "At His name, every knee shall bend." "He shall come again in Glory to judge both the living and the dead." I am very sensitive to anything which even remotely seems blasphemous. Luke 12:5 "Fear not he who can injure or kill you. I will tell you whom you should fear. Fear him, who once one is dead, can cast that person into Hell. He is the one you should fear." - Bill Mon, 07 Mar 2011 09:54:08 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/the-other-jesuses.html#comment-6233 Dear Mr. Grump, You have quoted one of my favorite poems. I wonder what Mr. Plunkett would have thought of the characterization of his Lord as "the real Jesus". Mr. Plunkett was executed by the British at age 28 in 1918 for his part in the planning and execution of the "Easter Rising" against the British in Dublin. He was a faithful and devout Catholic and knew only one Jesus. He was also a staunch Irish nationalist. It is said (but I don't know of any confirmation) that he scratched the words of this poem on his prison cell wall and they were found after his death. He married his beloved two days before his execution, although he had not one moment alone with her. I think she was allowed 10 minutes with him before his execution in the presence of a guard. She was a Catholic convert who never married but continued her work for Irish independence until she died alone in her apartment years later. I don't think that there was any confusion in Mr. Plunkett's heart about who Jesus is. His faithful witness to Christ is certainly worthy of emulation, and it is, therefore, necessary to embrace the words of the poem in the context of that witness. His love of Jesus and his identification with Jesus' Passion is evident in the first line of the poem, when the first metaphor refers to Jesus' blood. Thank you for posting this lovely poem. It moves me deeply. - Louise Mon, 07 Mar 2011 08:54:24 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/the-other-jesuses.html#comment-6232 Have no chagrin, Bill, 'the guy born in Bethlehem' is a figure of speech. I think You know that full well. Why get your hackles up? Mr. Royal is merely using this rhetorical speech to characterize the 'modern' versus his (and our) traditional sensibilities. Sometimes, to speak effectivley (also well known by you), it is necessary to use the language of 'the other side', those one wishes to to reach...they hear it...such talk vibrates sympatheticaly with their way of thinking. I suspect the TCT is written often with the college crowd in mind. Don't you suppose 'the guy born in Bethlehem' will be better grasped by that audience than anything like "the Annointed One","the King of Kings","the Son Man", 'Immanuel',etc.,etc. Peace, dude. - Howard Mon, 07 Mar 2011 07:06:31 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/the-other-jesuses.html#comment-6231 It is indeed unfortunate for us that these words from Mr. Royal are all too true. When tolerance and diversity are treated as nouns instead of adjectives we have lost our focus. We would all do better to start with "the guy from Bethlehem" and then go from there. - Chris Mon, 07 Mar 2011 05:21:34 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/the-other-jesuses.html#comment-6230 Not to hijack this thread, but 60 Minutes had a segment on atheist Christopher Hitchens on Sunday wherein he talked about leaving open the possibility of "evidence" of God. "I like surprises," is the way Hitchens put it at the end of the interview. As an agnostic who, like the parable of the sower and the seed, has read and heard the Word, but in one in which it has not taken root (yet), I, too, have been searching for the "evidence" that Hitchens seeks. I happened to tune in to an old Bishop Sheen telecast on EWTN (proof of my sincere searching) and heard him recite this poem from Joseph Mary Plunkett: I see his blood upon the rose And in the stars the glory of his eyes, His body gleams amid eternal snows, His tears fall from the skies. I see his face in every flower; The thunder and the singing of the birds Are but his voice—and carven by his power Rocks are his written words. All pathways by his feet are worn, His strong heart stirs the ever-beating sea, His crown of thorns is twined with every thorn, His cross is every tree. For me, this captures the "real Jesus" Mr. Royal speaks of and the "evidence" that is all that one needs to know that he is the one true God. - Grump Mon, 07 Mar 2011 04:10:11 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/the-other-jesuses.html#comment-6229 "...the guy born in Bethlehem." - Bill Mon, 07 Mar 2011 01:01:33 +0100