Comments for Hispanic Catholics and the American Experiment at http://www.thecatholicthing.org , comment 1 to 8 out of 8 comments http://www.thecatholicthing.org Sat, 25 May 2013 20:20:17 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/hispanic-catholics-and-the-american-experiment.html#comment-7157 Dear Mr. Thursday: you seem to be in more militant teaching, less in listening mode. Since you're quoting titles, let me mention my own book "1492 and All That," which works some of the material you mention with praise and blame for all sides. I was trying to get at something else here. - Robert Royal Sat, 25 Jun 2011 05:03:05 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/hispanic-catholics-and-the-american-experiment.html#comment-7155 I can't agree with Jack's comment that Mr. Royal's post "reeks of an Anglo-Saxon Protestant mentality" as much as it reveals a standard bias in many people of the United States, steeped as they are in the Black Legend. According to this slander, somehow Latin America was a "realm of oppression, slavery and witchcraft," while the U.S. was a Puritan "land of the Christian pure, home of the Pilgrim who made Progress." One often finds this bias these days in small evangelical groups who distinguish "Christians and Catholics," rather than "Protestants and Catholics" Mr. Royal simply writes from this bias, wittingly or unwittingly. His article quotes Huntington with qualified approval and Chesterton with unqualified approval. He marshals some newsy bits to motivate the writing of the post, but evinces no deep familiarity with Latin American cultures and histories. Perhaps he has some of this, but it doesn't come through in the post. Anyone reading only the last couple year's NYT or WSJ could repeat these news snippets and never have read any deeper sources. Most tellingly he quotes no Latin American observers or thinkers on the subject, although there are many of these both in the Roman Catholic Church and in the broader society. Perhaps taking a look at the masterful theologian Fr. Virgilio Elizondo might be a good starting point to understand how Hispanics/Latinos have seen their journey as Americans and Roman Catholics. Instead we get Chesterton! No don't get me wrong, I really like Chesterton. But ignoring all of the Hispanic/Latino thinkers in U.S. history, inside and outside of the Church, and instead quoting a British thinker, no matter how orthodox, yields no insight into the situation of "Hispanic Catholics and the American Experiment". I urge Mr. Royal to read some of Bernard Lonergan's work _insight_, specifically the sections on "bias". It is not as often read these days as in the 1990s, but it still has much to teach us on the theological quest to avoid biased and half-baked thought. - G.K. Thursday Sat, 25 Jun 2011 03:37:04 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/hispanic-catholics-and-the-american-experiment.html#comment-7103 I am absolutely for a critique of practices that aren't in sync with Catholic orthodoxy; however I don't think these practices should be blamed on the Spanish, nor do I think it proper that all manifestations of popular religiosity occuring in Latin American countries should necessarily be termed "Hispanic" though I know that is often the case when describing said things. I personally prefer "Hispanic" as a synonym for Spanish, as the term originally was such. - Jack Thu, 16 Jun 2011 09:44:31 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/hispanic-catholics-and-the-american-experiment.html#comment-7082 We call people from the region Hispanic, not Spanish, precisely because they are a mix of cultures beyond those of the Iberian explorers. As I said in the column, the curanderos show an admirable belief in the immediate presence of the spiritual world, but this is not all one can ask of any culture. I'm sorry to say that the above comment reeks of an all too common bias: we can criticize parts of American or European cultures, but to say that cultures in Latin America, Asia, or Africa are -- like our own -- imperfect means the critic must be a white devil. How is it an Anglo-Saxon Protestant mentality to say, as I do in conclusion, that a Hispanic influence may be one of the unanticipated sources of renewal for America? - Robert Royal Tue, 14 Jun 2011 10:20:05 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/hispanic-catholics-and-the-american-experiment.html#comment-7081 The area mentioned as having as part of its culture a syncretic, suspect Catholicism is one that is also one that is very indigenous. In fact many of the people even speak an indigenous language. Would it then be appropriate to term this land's pre-Columbian practices(and "young men with Our Lady of Guadelupe and Satan on the other") as "Hispanic?" and consequences of a supposedly vulgar Hispanic(Spanish)conquest and civilization? This article just reeks of an Anglo-Saxon Protestant mentality. - Jack Tue, 14 Jun 2011 10:01:17 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/hispanic-catholics-and-the-american-experiment.html#comment-7075 It's a simple fact that the Iberian peninsula did not have a Magna Carta or any other partof the Anglo-Saxon tradition that formed the value system that makes us American's. And anyone who wants to connect this phenomenon to religion should remember that the Magna Carta came from Catholic England. There eare several other aspects of this question that rarely occur to people who don't live where there are many epople who come to this country and have no intention of becoming Americans. I must inform those who are unaware of this that many people already here and those now coming have been proseltyzed with the belief that much of America rightly beongs to Mexico, and many also also being to cast aside Catholicism for Marxism, right under the nose of the Chruch leaders, who ignore a pamphlet for children called The ABC's of being Chicano, which tells children that A is for Azatlan (the land that rightly beongs to Mexico, and the when they reach K it is is for Karl Marx. And those goading the students to take down the US flag at thier shools and run up the US flag do so precisely to create a backlash against the very people they pretend to champion, all in hopes of creating even more resentment. Have we not learnee anything from Steinbeck's In Dubious Battle or Ellison's Invisible Man? Catholics wax romantic about Communitarian Hispanic Catholicism while young men with Our Lady of Guadalupe tatooed on one armn and Satan on the other kill each other and no one thinks to tell them that could go to Hell becuase the political correct view is that thier plight is the fault of the Anglo-Saxon majority. - Thomas C. Coleman, Jr. Mon, 13 Jun 2011 13:57:07 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/hispanic-catholics-and-the-american-experiment.html#comment-7074 Great article Dr. Royal! But I don't agree with Huntington, I really don't think we would have been worse off with the Spanish or Portuguese as our founders. Maybe not better off, but at least not worse off. Actually I think that that argument over who would have been better as our founders would make a great TCT article! - Aeneas Mon, 13 Jun 2011 12:30:27 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/hispanic-catholics-and-the-american-experiment.html#comment-7073 Mr. Royal writes, when referring to a book written by mister Huntington: "In it he argued that we would be a different – in his view, a worse –nation if our founders were Spanish or Portuguese. Perhaps true, but this does not answer ...". That "perhaps true" really hurts Hispanic people's feelings, but in a way, there may be many instances that support his doubt, but there are others that won't. - Jorge Romero-Chacon Mon, 13 Jun 2011 08:01:30 +0100