Comments for Holy Slavery? at http://www.thecatholicthing.org , comment 1 to 7 out of 7 comments http://www.thecatholicthing.org Wed, 19 Jun 2013 14:10:33 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/holy-slavery.html#comment-14927 Yes i agree to it in every bit for this is true that holy slavery is the fastest means of growing in spirituality.It will not be easy to embrace this devotion for umpteem number of obstcales will come up.If we prevail to the end much will be gaoned by us for ourselves and for others too.Also propagating this devotion will will require much prudence and discretion. - maria rose Thu, 13 Dec 2012 09:30:48 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/holy-slavery.html#comment-10030 Sunday, February 19, 2012 VATICAN CURIA MUST REALIZE THAT ALL THE POPES HELD THE RIGORIST INTERPRETATION OF EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS Invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire are not exceptions to the dogma. There can be no explicit, defacto, known cases of persons saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire. So it is not an issue with respect to the dogma, unless, it is made an issue and made to appear as explicit and known. Here are the popes affirming the literal interpretation of extra ecclesiam nulla salus. POPE PIUS IX (Allocution December 9th, 1854) Pope Pius IX held the rigorist interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and also affirmed the possibility of non Catholics being saved in invincible ignorance, cases of which are unknown to us and so are not explicit exceptions to the dogma. Pope Pius IX was saying: (Defacto):'We must hold as of the faith, that out of the Apostolic Roman Church there is no salvation; that she is the only ark of safety, and whosoever is not in her perishes in the deluge…’ and (Dejure): ‘we must also, on the other hand, recognize with certainty that those who are invincible in ignorance of the true religion are not guilty for this in the eyes of the Lord...' Defacto (explicitly) everyone needs to enter the Church for salvation (to avoid Hell) and de jure (in principle) and known only to God, there could be non Catholics saved in invincible ignorance etc, ‘in certain circumstances’ (Letter of the Holy Office 1949). QUANTO CONFICIAMUR (Defacto) 8. ‘… no one can be saved outside the Catholic Church – Quanto Conficamur, Pope Pius IX 1863 (Dejure) 7. ‘… those who are struggling with invincible ignorance about our most holy religion. Sincerely observing the natural law and its precepts inscribed by God on all hearts and ready to obey God, they live honest lives and are able to attain eternal life by the efficacious virtue of divine light and grace. Because God knows, searches and clearly understands the minds, hearts, thoughts, and nature of all, his supreme kindness and clemency do not permit anyone at all who is not guilty of deliberate sin to suffer eternal punishments...-Quanto Conficamur LETTER OF THE HOLY OFFICE 1949 The Letter of the Holy Office 1949 issued during the pontificate of Pope Pius XII mentions ‘the dogma', the 'infallible statement'. Here is the ‘dogma’: (Defacto) '... it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.” (Pope Boniface VIII, the Bull Unam Sanctam, 1302.) ‘… none of those existing outside the Catholic Church... can have a share in life eternal... unless before death they are joined with Her... No one... can be saved, unless he (Defacto) remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church.” (Pope Eugene IV, the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441.) http://catholicism.org/category/outside-the-church-there-is-no-salvation (Dejure) ‘… when a person is involved in invincible ignorance God accepts also an implicit desire…’ These things are clearly taught in that dogmatic letter which was issued by the Sovereign Pontiff, Pope Pius XII, on June 29, 1943, (AAS, Vol. 35, an. 1943, p. 193 ff.). For in this letter the Sovereign Pontiff clearly distinguishes between those who are actually incorporated into the Church as members,(Defacto) and those who are united to the Church only by desire (Dejure).- Letter of the Holy Office 1949 (Emphasis added). VATICAN COUNCIL II (Defacto) ‘The Church…is necessary for salvation… faith and baptism…for through baptism as through a door men enter the Church.’- Lumen Gentium 14, Vatican Council II. (Dejure) ‘…those who have not yet received the Gospel are related in various ways to the people of God…’ -Lumen Gentium 16 ‘Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church…’- Lumen Gentium 16 If one uses the irrational defacto-defacto analysis of the above magisterial texts instead of the traditional dejure-defacto interpretation it would mean the popes contradicted themselves and that Vatican Council II contradicted an ex cathedra dogma. It would be a criticism of the infallibility of the popes ex cathedra. It would also be contrary to the Principle of Non Contradiction. It is heresy to claim that there are defacto exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. With the defacto-dejure analysis we see that the Magisterial texts affirm the centuries-old interpretation of the Church Fathers, the saints, the popes and Councils, including Vatican Council II. This was the traditional interpretation of Fr. Leonard Feeney of Boston. This is the teaching of Pope John Paul II's Dominus Iesus (20) and the Catechism of the Catholic Church 845,846 and also during the pontificate of Pope Benedict XVI in Responses to Some questions regarding certain Aspects of the Doctrine on the Church (2007).-Lionel Andrades _____________________________________________ All the popes, Church Councils including Vatican Council II,like Fr.Leonard Feeney held the ‘rigorist interpretation’ of extra ecclesiam nulla salus : invincible ignorance (LG 16) is not an exception to the dogma http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2012/02/all-popes-church-councils-including.html#links - Lionel Andrades Tue, 21 Feb 2012 00:19:17 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/holy-slavery.html#comment-7484 @debby: The Merriam-Webster dictionary defines "bond-servant" as "one bound to service without wages" and offers "slave" as a synonym. So the voluntary aspect that you mention doesn't enter into the usual meaning. But of course with St. Paul, freedom and love were paramount. A "slave of love" is something very paradoxical. - Howard Kainz Sun, 24 Jul 2011 16:54:08 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/holy-slavery.html#comment-7480 my understanding of "bond-servant" as differing from "slave" was that a person may have been purchased as a slave, often their role signified by the type of clothing worn and a pierced ear. some slaves were set free after a period of time, not unlike an indentured servant. however, some persons would become so devoted to their master that they would slit their ear (where the earring was)and become by their own choice a "bond-slave" or LOVE SLAVE FOR LIFE. out of Love they bonded themselves for the rest of their life to their master, and they let the world know by the mark on their body. please correct me if i am mistaken. i have always taken this as St. Paul espousing total abandonment in love to God. and didn't St. Paul go to Ephesus where St. John and M. Mary lived before going out in mission to preach? didn't he have some face time with Her to re-learn the Holy Scriptures he had studied as a Pharisee? i've been told by a devotee of St. Paul's that he was the first Jesuit, spending 7 years with our Lady and the Apostles, being discipled before preaching, but maybe this is Tradition rather than history. in any case, i'm sure that St. Paul helped St. Louis in his devotion to Mary. Who could be more devoted to Mary than Jesus? or Jesus than Mary? what Christian - Catholic or otherwise- doesn't want to become like Christ? i can honestly say that She drew me to Him in the Catholic Church while i was protestant and protesting Her role.....sublime Feminine genius! - debby Sun, 24 Jul 2011 13:41:00 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/holy-slavery.html#comment-7479 Catholics who were brought up in a Marian devotion would have no problem in this devotion. In the end all roads lead to Jesus Christ as Redeemer and Mediator. - richard Sun, 24 Jul 2011 09:42:17 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/holy-slavery.html#comment-7477 Beautiful and inspiring! Thank you, Howard - Matt Sat, 23 Jul 2011 10:25:19 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/holy-slavery.html#comment-7476 The holiest person I think I have ever met recently gave me a copy of True Devotion to Mary. It seems that your column just may be confirmation that it is time to read it. Thank you. - SJM Sat, 23 Jul 2011 10:18:10 +0100