Comments for On the Fragility of Islam at http://www.thecatholicthing.org , comment 1 to 27 out of 20 comments http://www.thecatholicthing.org Sun, 26 May 2013 03:30:37 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/on-the-fragility-of-islam.html#comment-8250 The well known saying that those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it was rephrased by some observant soul to read History does not repeat so much as it Echoes. Islam did not win conversions the real way. Islam conquered peoples who were left to either embrace Islam or embrace the sword. Once conquered Islam controlled the schools and the rest as they say is "History". With the emergence of a militant Secularism we in America and all of what once was termed Christendom are now facing an "Echo" of Islam. Prayer and God were banished first from the schools; next Teachers, Scholars, Professors and even simple Professionals such as Meteorologists must burn incense before the altars of that Trojan horse called Climate Change; a false front for Zero Population Growth or they are barred from or loose employment. Medical students must learn the dark arts of abortion or fail to matriculate. Those who should be calling the alarm are largely in cahoots with the invaders. Face it we are just like the Byzantine Empire. We are experiencing our own modern version of the Islamic echo of history. We are driven from the public square by the "brights" and largely with the help of volunteer Janissaries; many of whom have squandered a Catholic education and just like a Janissary of the 7th century they collect their double portions and their 30 pieces of silver. Compared to these turncoats we at least have to grant the Muslims the fact that they have the beginnings of Wisdom in that at least they fear God. They are thus at least a half penny candle in the darkness that has enveloped much of Europe and most of DC. - veritas Fri, 23 Sep 2011 19:20:46 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/on-the-fragility-of-islam.html#comment-7983 I was interested in Fr Schall's mention of communism (and its downfall) in an article about Islam. This raises a question in my mind about praying: in 1917 when Communism was just getting started in Russia, Our Lady requested prayers for the conversion of Russia to prevent the spread of errors around the world. 30 years later, that request found a particular response in the founding of the Blue Army by Father Colgan. Question: does anyone know if Our Lady (in any approved apparitions) has requested prayers for the conversion of Moslems so as to prevent the spread of error akin to 1917 vis-a-vis Communists? - dj Sun, 04 Sep 2011 17:11:37 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/on-the-fragility-of-islam.html#comment-7903 Father Schall and others interested in the fragility of Islam should look into "Unmasking Muhammed" by S. Das - James Sun, 28 Aug 2011 07:30:36 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/on-the-fragility-of-islam.html#comment-7900 muhammed said: no more information from God. So. In islam, God is dead. By who? By muhammef himself. - cc Sat, 27 Aug 2011 11:15:16 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/on-the-fragility-of-islam.html#comment-7897 I find it interesting that Fr. Schall makes no mention of the "schism" (if that's the right word) between the Sunni and Shiite Muslims. Much of the violence in Iraq after the US invasion was the ethnic cleansing of Sunnis, Shiite and Kurds out of the areas where the other factions predominated. Perhaps the ultimate fragility of Islam is the potential for the two sects to annihilate one another - Strider55 Sat, 27 Aug 2011 07:19:25 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/on-the-fragility-of-islam.html#comment-7889 As a former academic, specializing in Soviet politics, I think the comparison is highly untenable. The political concepts of socialism were based on a reductionist and limited economic program - leaving signficant room for variations - but was very poor in defining the social arrangements of the ideal society. Also, socialism failed to deliver on it's promises, especially when compared to the West. Islam does not suffer from this as it is based on the ideas of spiritual community, which looks good in comparison to Western culture. Huntington's clash of civilizations is very telling in this regard. One major flaw in Islam is the idea that by being faithful Muslims will be successful in this world (the original version of the "prosperity gospel"). Failure is unthinkable to many Muslims and a sign that they need to work even harder at either (1) being better Muslims, often through more literalistic interpretations of the Koran or (2) be better Muslims through spreading the World of Islam into the World of War - hence the rise of the external jihadists in the last three decades. - Mike Fri, 26 Aug 2011 06:25:55 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/on-the-fragility-of-islam.html#comment-7879 I agree with Father Schall that Islam needs to be confronted with regard to its appropriation and distortion of Jesus and the prophets. In a deeper sense, though, isn't it incumbent on us as Christians to speak the truth about who God is? - Jon Woods Thu, 25 Aug 2011 20:17:29 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/on-the-fragility-of-islam.html#comment-7874 I love how Philosoper Eric Voegelin cuts to the chase. He says...."We have a mass of historical documents and now even more scholarly analysis of these documents. What we don't have is analysis of whether any of it is true or not." The crux of the article is the line "its failure to understand the human soul and its origins". - stosh Thu, 25 Aug 2011 05:49:34 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/on-the-fragility-of-islam.html#comment-7873 First: The Koran is said to be dictated by Jibril (the Archangel Gabriel), not Allah himself. Second: The credibility of Muhamed as a prophet is the weakness of Islam. The 'pre-history' of the Koran is not relevant. What is important is that the life of Muhamed is not the life of a real prophet. A text in which the Hadith and the Koran are told in chronological order would make that clear. The Koran and the Hadith today are carefully edited to hide that truth. We need an editor who can get permission from the imams to publish in date order. The we have a halal text which all people can read. Today Islam is largely learned by word of mouth, so it is a very socialised process. Once people can read it for themselves the truth will make us free. - Francis Sparling Thu, 25 Aug 2011 04:59:24 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/on-the-fragility-of-islam.html#comment-7870 @Jason Taylor wrote: "... there is no way to say that if Allah is real that he would not command his followers to subjugate all rebels by force of arms." And yet, in the real world, most Muslims say that (A) Allah is real and (B) Allah has not commanded his followers to subjugate the rest of us. Perhaps talking it over with Muslims would enable you to discover how they can be so mistaken in their faith, and yet would you want to succeed? Perhaps it is in the interests of us Christians not to instruct Muslims that it is their religious duty to attack us. After all, most of them are our valued allies against a violent minority. - rewinn Wed, 24 Aug 2011 17:10:27 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/on-the-fragility-of-islam.html#comment-7869 My goodness, Fr. Schall. You seem to have hit a nerve. Well done! Watch your back. - Deacon Jim Stagg Wed, 24 Aug 2011 15:42:18 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/on-the-fragility-of-islam.html#comment-7868 If scholarly analysis of texts could persuade millions to change their faith, then surely by now the entire planet would all agree with the Jesuits ... ... unless, of course, there were some flaw in the analysis of the Jesuits. - rewinn Wed, 24 Aug 2011 15:24:21 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/on-the-fragility-of-islam.html#comment-7864 written by Dick Rolwing, August 23, 2011 "Fr. Schall may be right but his hope could be stronger. What Catholics need to do is to locate Islam somewhere in God's salvation history or providence. The church does not deny that some individuals, saints, mystics, and theologians have had mystical and revelatory experiences beyond public revelation that ended with the apostles. Some, like Bernadette were not even adults. There is much truth in Islam and much devotion toward God (and it has had many great religious figures). It is not necessary to deny that Mohammed received revelations from God. But as Karl Rahner says a genuine private revelation can always be somewhat distorted by the receiver. And no one is bound to believe it. How did Mohammed distort his mystical experiences? By not fully becoming a superseccessionist over the warfare culture of his time and area. Sadly, he had had some Christian examples by 600AD. Satan, who always promotes hatred, violence, injustice, and war, helped him distort the meaning of his spiritual experience. The history of Jihad (a 700 page book) reads like Satan's diary. The Jews had ths story of Joshua, and even Aquinas approved of force against heretics and apostates. Catholics should say yes and no to Islam. God blessed him and his but they distorted it. Communists provoked revolutions everywhere but they were not wholesale assassins. Peaceful Muslims should not be permitted to simply say Jihadists misinterpret the Koran. They should admit, insist, that demons infest their brethren. But we cannot get western politicians to even get righteously indignant about Muslim governments murdering their citizen protestors. "That leader should go" is but a pragmatic suggestion. However, I grant that NATO's attack on Gadafhi expressed moral indignation as our Declaration of Independence did. So we have atheistic secularists on the front porch and diabolical monotheists on the back porch. Catholic leaders the world over should constantly denounce Jihadism as a perversion of God's (private) revelation to Mohammed, and not merely a misinterpretation of the Koran -- which no Muslim can prove or make official." That is a contradiction. The Declaration of Independence was also a Declaration of war. In any case condemning Islam because it is warlike is limited unless one holds to a pacifist position. Without revelation to the contrary one cannot say it is more wrong to fight for one's religion then for one's tribe or nation. And if Islam is true then everyone else is a rebel and there is no way to say that if Allah is real that he would not command his followers to subjugate all rebels by force of arms. Our distaste for Islam comes from habits of thought inherent specifically in Christianity which separate the Church from the World. And from the historical coincidence of them being our present enemy. And from our anger at them making war in a dishonorable manner. The first reason assumes the premise of our rightness, the second is irrelevant, and the third is not intrinsically necessary to a Jihadist Islam as it is theoretically possible for Muslims to fight without killing random civilians. Jihadists are a threat to us because they are attacking us. Adding to that by, making ado about their moral failings in attacking us is spouting hot air. A man attacked in the street does not need to know that his opponent is sinning before hitting him, does he? - jason taylor Wed, 24 Aug 2011 11:46:06 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/on-the-fragility-of-islam.html#comment-7861 I wish Pop and Catholics spend their energy and time saving what is remained of christianity instead of getting entangled in conspiracies to subvert other faiths. I mean what kind of satanic anti-God crusade is that? As for Qoran: the whole Arabic grammer was organized by Islamic scholars who endlessly investigated every letter of Qoran and its roots. Somebody who works in Academia surely can search the library and find out for himself that thousands of Qoranic investigations exist, so the chance of ruining it for muslims is exactly zero. Overall, I wish Americans stop the radicalization of the world and spreading the combative ideologies, which later on comes to haunt us from all around the world. - H.D. Wed, 24 Aug 2011 09:58:09 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/on-the-fragility-of-islam.html#comment-7858 What is certain -- apart from the nitpicking about this article -- is that Islam as a monolithic entity is unprepared to move into the future in a fast changing modern world. While the Catholic Church has revisited its underpinnings and while faith is most assuredly belief and not fact, this Jewish reader appreciates the article's longer view, and suggests that the "fragility of Islam" is evident from many perspectives as it faces its Reformation-like moment. Currently the Roman Church has outreach to Jews as well as other Christian denominations, not to mention "moderate" Islam. The militant, radical Muslims cannot fathom this and are essentially exploding from their fragility. While this looks like militancy, it seems to me to be weakness and fracture. Thank you for a most interesting article. - SW Wed, 24 Aug 2011 06:49:04 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/on-the-fragility-of-islam.html#comment-7857 I read Schall to be simply saying that Islam may be fragile because many claims it makes can be proven false. That the ferocious sensitivity Muslims exhibit to these questions reveals their own uncertainty in the veracity of those claims. I think Muslim regard for god as an unknowable force as contrasted with the Christian understanding of god as a person constrained by reason and logic makes that difference. - Leonard Kramer Wed, 24 Aug 2011 06:21:20 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/on-the-fragility-of-islam.html#comment-7856 Famous phrase from classic Russian film, "White Sun of the Desert" - 'Vostok - delo tonkoe'. Translated, 'The East - is a delicate matter'. - stosh Wed, 24 Aug 2011 04:48:01 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/on-the-fragility-of-islam.html#comment-7854 Somewhere, some stone age minded mulla is getting ready to issue a fatwah for the death of Father Schall. Such black ingratitude on the part of Georgetown after gobbling up all those crumbs swept off the Saudi table! - Yezhov Wed, 24 Aug 2011 04:20:35 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/on-the-fragility-of-islam.html#comment-7852 John Mack, written by John Mack, August 23, 2011 "This a very naive view. You cannot moderate the beliefs of Fundamentalist Christians in the United States with facts, about the Bible, about evolution, about the American Founders. Faith is blind to facts. No amount of research or facts will diminish Muslim beliefs." The author may be naive, but your comment indicates pure ignorance. Last time I checked the Catholic church has it's share of buffoons. The reformed faith was a reaction to equally vile and corrupt actions of a powerful few who had lost their way. I suggest you broaden your reading material a little bit and increase your knowledge so you can form more credible views. Vic Oro - Vic Oro Wed, 24 Aug 2011 02:37:46 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/on-the-fragility-of-islam.html#comment-7850 If belief in the authenticity of the Book of Mormon can survive textual criticism, what hope is there for critics of the Qur'an? Critics of the former can rely on a vast amount of evidence, extrinsic to the text itself, archaeological, genetic and philological, to rebut the historicity of its contents, none of which are available to critics of the Qur'an. But consider a closer parallel; since the 16th century, scholars have identified a great many interpolations by the compilers of Justinian's Corpus Juris,as well as subsequent corruptions in the text. As long as the Corpus Juris remained living law (as it did in the German Empire until 1900) the jurists and the courts simply refused to consider them, because of the challenge their acknowledgement would have posed to the legal, social and political order. In the final analysis, the civil magistrate simply supported his interpretation with the power of the sword. Any criticisms that undermine the authority of Shari'ah, which is the law of millions, would meet with a similar response by the authorities. - Michael Paterson-Seymour Wed, 24 Aug 2011 00:23:09 +0100