Comments for The Anti-Catholic Moment at http://www.thecatholicthing.org , comment 1 to 14 out of 14 comments http://www.thecatholicthing.org Thu, 23 May 2013 01:21:40 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/the-anti-catholic-moment.html#comment-13423 There are a lot of truisms in here that are no longer the case. For instance,"believers" either are far more scarce than the Catholic Church believes, or "believers" no longer have more children than "non-believers." One or the other, but not both, must be true for the statements of this article on this topic to be accurate. And in fact, the facts show that Catholics on average contracept at just about the same rates as non-Catholics, which lends support to b) and says nothing to a) except that it may also be logically possible. There may actually have been a Catholic moment. Such a thing would actually have been a plausible assertion toward the end of the reign of Pope John Paul II, when goodwill towards the Church was very high. However, if there was a Catholic moment, the Church had already undermined it before it ever had a chance to blossom. This, because even during the 90s, underneath it all was a simmering child abuse crisis and a half dozen other unattended-to crises to go with it. There is one thing that the article is correct about: We are definitely at an anti-Catholic moment now. And it's not getting better. We need to stop and do a completely novel thing as Catholics: THINK before we react. A little genuine analysis and planning might be a good thing too. For one thing, it couldn't hurt and for another, it would be shocking to our detractors because we've so seldom behaved that way before. We usually just react, right into their hands. - midwestlady Mon, 17 Sep 2012 21:34:22 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/the-anti-catholic-moment.html#comment-8076 SJM - I agree and am willing to dialogue via Skype or e-mail since I live in NYC. Write to me if you are interested - Bklyn [dot] Henry @ gmail.com. - Henry Mon, 12 Sep 2011 02:11:23 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/the-anti-catholic-moment.html#comment-8055 When Fr Neuhaus calls on the Church “to assume its rightful role in the culture-forming task of constructing a religiously informed public philosophy for the American experiment in ordered liberty,” I am reminded of Leo XIII’s exhortation to French Catholics: ”When the will of a people as to the form of its government has been clearly affirmed, frank and loyal acceptance of its political institutions; respect for the laws of the country whenever they do not clash with conscientious obligations; respect for the representatives of authority, combined with steady resistance to all encroachments on the spiritual domain.” Alas! That advice was not heeded; most of the clergy continued to proclaim the sacred and indissoluble union of throne and altar and, in doing so, alienated the mass of their fellow-citizens and marginalised the Church in the life of the nation. As a European, I hope that American Catholics do not place themselves in the same invidious position. - Michael Paterson-Seymour Sat, 10 Sep 2011 06:24:34 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/the-anti-catholic-moment.html#comment-8048 This is the second time that I've read in recent weeks that the Founders are somehow at fault here or at least the moral equivalents of dictators, kings and queens, the House of Commons, or politicians from the American South. It isn't clearly explained above. At least not to me. Nor was it in remarks made by the Archbishop of Los Angeles at the Napa Institute. As I read Catholic history (and ongoing self-education since the Church doesn't seem much interested in it), the Church has too often drifted from its Commission by being far too close and "accepted" by rulers and governments. I voted for Pres. Bush, but the faith-based initiative was always problematic. How is the First Amendment in all its dimensions the enemy of the Church? Hasn't it, until recently, afforded the Church a productive and ordered liberty rarely present elsewhere (especially in so-called "Catholic countries")? Is there a wariness in the Church, a kind of anglophobia, toward English-speaking Catholics? (John Allen reports something very like that.) Of course I speak as a former Anglican, and worse, an American of Scots-Irish Southern and English descent. Perhaps not a natural candidate for conversion to the Church I love. A prodigal stranger rather than a prodigal son. What the Constitution (admittedly now as under attack as the Church) cannot give us as Catholics is the courage to confront the culture or live the Faith. I meet too many Catholics who redact Church teachings on sex, on the Sacrament of Marriage, on the sanctity of human life, and even my naive practice of calling myself "Catholic" rather than "Catholic Christian" (whatever THAT means). There is no greater admirer of the late Fr. Neuhaus. I remain forever grateful that -- unaware of his declining health -- I emailed him with my gratitude for his writings, for First Things, and for his long-distance pastoral work that contributed mightily to my conversion. I can tell you that when I read that he had passed away, I cried as I sat at my computer. But I do somehow get the impression that despite the righteous call to be a Catholic first, the Church is involved more in politics than in offering something more than an "alternative" to the culture. When will the Church require that pro-life Catholic polticians confront pro-choice unions? When will priests and bishops remind ALL of the faithful that they cannot vote for pro-choice politicians no matter how "pro-immigration" or active in "civil rights" (again, whatever these labels means) they may be. I once said to another Catholic that if William Wilberforce had been Catholic (as his sons would become) rather than Anglican, that he would today be "Blessed William Wilberforce." Now I"m not so sure. - Graham Combs Fri, 09 Sep 2011 16:01:55 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/the-anti-catholic-moment.html#comment-8042 Before charging off to ‘do’, we should first clearly determine what the problem is and who is the problem. In current Catholicism have we really thought through where we want to end up and what the impediments are that are holding us back? Many of the comments offer partial solutions, some to only ephemeral issues. From my perspective the main obstacle to implementing the type of Catholicism Mr. Royal longs for is the confusion in what we are to believe and do. Until Rome cracks down on dissident teaching by bishops, priests, theologians and other academic illuminati, we won’t know what to believe and do. St. Paul said as much when he reminded us that ‘If the trumpet gives an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself for battle?” - senex Fri, 09 Sep 2011 06:27:27 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/the-anti-catholic-moment.html#comment-8041 I am in no way connected to anyone in the SSPX, and I've got to say that your observation "...spectacular gaffes: The lack of vetting of an SSPX bishop with ties to anti-Semitism...." makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. The Holy See never approved that man for ordination, it merely lifted the Canonical penalty of excommunication from him. Is a man to be denied communion with Christ's Church because some of his political opinions are unsavory? Or because he is embarassing to the Church in a media world? Keep yor eye on savings souls, as the Holy See clearly did in this case. - fred Fri, 09 Sep 2011 04:31:27 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/the-anti-catholic-moment.html#comment-8040 Well said, Mr. Robert Royal. And Fr. Neuhaus always provided a grand read, too. - Shan Gill Fri, 09 Sep 2011 02:12:22 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/the-anti-catholic-moment.html#comment-8035 From the title I surmised this was going to be a rather dim or straight out depressing piece...far from it! It was quite inspiring! Thanks Mr. Royal! - Aeneas Thu, 08 Sep 2011 20:24:27 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/the-anti-catholic-moment.html#comment-8032 Reading Joseph Pearce's Literary Converts, I am struck by the similarities between the early decades of each of the last 2 centuries (21st and 20th). I think Neuhaus was dead on the money, but the abuse crisis killed its realization. In a crisis about deviant sexuality, the Church sadly gave a sex obsessed world a hammer with which to crush the " moment " before it could even begin to take off. - W.E. Thu, 08 Sep 2011 15:42:57 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/the-anti-catholic-moment.html#comment-8031 Thank you for the last sentence of your reply, Joe K. Just as Jesus brought Lazarus out of the tomb, so did Abp. Lefebvre of the SSPX (and its offshoot, the FSSP) bring the Tridentine Mass out of its tomb. You see, it was abrogated until B XVI "unabrogated" it and he will use this as the Tool with which to reconvert the Church. The reason many modern Catholics despise the EF Mass is its return was forecast forty years ago when the OF Mass was introduced. - Manfred Thu, 08 Sep 2011 13:42:59 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/the-anti-catholic-moment.html#comment-8029 With all due respect Manfred, the picture is bigger than the fact that irrelevant ideologies are slowly drifting into obscurity. Holy Mother Church is in need of great saints in every walk of life to glorify God and enlighten the world. I think that the message is more that the "good fight" is what good Catholics do best. I know a rallying cry when I hear one. Christ has overcome the world and to serve Him in truth is to reign with Him. All Catholics have to do this if we are to see improvement in the world. And if you want to see where Thomism and the Carolingian-Gregorian Mass is still strong and powerful look to the Institute of Christ the King and the Sapientis Institute. - Joe K Thu, 08 Sep 2011 11:03:31 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/the-anti-catholic-moment.html#comment-8027 "The lack of vetting of an SSPX bishop with ties to anti-semitism; the failure to deal with sexually predatory clergy; even near terminal clumsiness in explaining its own beliefs." A sexually predatory clergy without any episcopal control which has cost the American church $3 billion, a new religion with a new Mass which buried the Tridentine Mass as well as Thomism, apologetics and belief in Hell, and your sequence, Dr. Royal, of the ills in the Church begins with a lunatic bishop who may or not be an anti-semite? Why not begin with the new Mass (is it truly?) which has had three "translations" in forty years? Many in the church (sic) are objecting to the liturgy to come out at Advent and are refusing to say it. The new Mass has had a cloud over it since it was introduced and any thinkers knew it was a tinny sop to Protestants. - Manfred Thu, 08 Sep 2011 08:20:24 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/the-anti-catholic-moment.html#comment-8026 It is more important than ever for Catholics with "orthodox" views (those who believe in the teachings of the Church) to come together for support. The internet has certainly made it easier for people of like values and beliefs to at least know there are others who believe similarly. However, I think it is also important to have the opportunity to meet in person with others to be able to explore our faith more deeply. Many of us are not academics but read extensively and would like the opportunity to have a discussion group with like-minded people. We are new to our community and parish in RI. At daily Mass, whenever I see someone with a Magnificat, I think that that person just may be interested in such a group. Not all areas have access to opportunities to discuss things other than "Catholic Lite". There is much to be done in the Catholic community. People such as myself, who spent years in the business world as a "catholic", finally "get it" and have become real Catholics, with the grace of God. Unfortunately, most of our friends were also secular-minded and most have not yet made the transition to a true appreciation and understanding of their faith. One really needs to be an apologist to be able to deal with their dogmatic support of secularism, agnosticism, and atheism. Thank you so very much for "The Catholic Thing"- it is a true blessing every day - and a beacon of hope! - SJM Thu, 08 Sep 2011 06:29:13 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/the-anti-catholic-moment.html#comment-8021 It's always seemed to me that the true "Catholic moment" of the last century was just prior to Vatican II. While certainly not perfect, the Church had a large number of vocations and conversions and generally Catholics at least practiced their Faith. Then came Vatican II where we decided to go ahead and either radically alter or jettison almost every distinctive mode of Catholic worship and practice and replace it with what? The resulting disaster should not have been difficult to predict. I know, I know, it's really all the secular world's fault. Keep believing that and we are still far from much of any solution. But God bless Pope Benedict, he at least seems to understand the magnitude of the problem and is taking steps to rectify it. - Brennan Wed, 07 Sep 2011 22:54:34 +0100