Comments for Belief, Knowledge, and Certainty at http://www.thecatholicthing.org , comment 1 to 6 out of 6 comments http://www.thecatholicthing.org Wed, 19 Jun 2013 11:17:06 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/belief-knowledge-and-certainty.html#comment-9100 @Patrick: A sincere thank you for sharing your thoughts. If you "detect some dismissiveness toward the new English translation," it is because this "new" translation has been in use for hundreds of years. In fact, with perhaps a very small tweak here and there, it is the English translation of what was the universal Mass prior to Vatican II. As the chapel I attend uses the 1962 Missal, our Mass did not change at all! - Manfred Mon, 05 Dec 2011 11:27:30 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/belief-knowledge-and-certainty.html#comment-9095 It strikes me that scientific naturalism collapses on itself when it asserts there is no creator or first, supernatural cause. If the universe has no creator, then it and everything within it are an accident. It just popped into existence - and the corrolary is that it and everything within it could just as easily pop out of existence for no reason and without any natural cause. In such a world, where Nothing suddenly and without cause or reason became Something, how can logic ["A equals A and does not equal not-A"] cohere? How could science, which is the search for natural causes, ever make sense in such a random universe? The fact that science does make sense - i.e. we can accrue scientific knowledge about natural things - is to my mind proof or at least evidence that nature and the material world cannot be all that there is. - Joe Hammond Mon, 05 Dec 2011 07:17:17 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/belief-knowledge-and-certainty.html#comment-9094 Manfred, I agree that Catholics have been a less than stellar witness in recent decades, much too eager to ingratiate ourselves with Protestants (in the US) and Marxists (in Europe), and so there is little point in attacking atheists when we do not have our own house in order. If the Catholic Church is seen as just another "believe whatever you want to" social club, then it's not surprising that people chose to join other social clubs (sport team fans, rock'n'roll cults, political parties, etc.) that are more glamorous and fun. We need to make it clear that there is indeed "one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church," namely, the Catholic Church, or else we have little to offer to anyone. Of course, we must be able to give an intellectual justification for the Catholic faith, as this article does. But that will only go so far without a true, living, vibrant alternative to relativism and secularism. I detect some dismissiveness toward the new English translation, but a more elevated language is a step in the right direction, isn't it? Hasn't Benedict XVI done more than we could have hoped toward the restoration of the sense of the sacred in Catholic liturgy? Don't be over-critical -- Rome wasn't built in a day ;) - Patrick Sun, 04 Dec 2011 16:22:17 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/belief-knowledge-and-certainty.html#comment-9090 One interesting side effect of rise of materialistic positivism has been the disregard shown to personal experience. After all God is not just 'proved' by philosophy but has made himself known by the experience of Saints and Prophets in private and public revelations (what we have are accounts of these experiences). Many 'lesser' people also have religious experiences as well. Naturally the materialists disregard this experience (because it goes against their narrow philosophy). Yet the personal experience still exists the same way a recorded measurement using a ruler or thermometer exists. Somehow we are supposed to believe the record of the thermometer reading regardless of the character of the scientist reading it but not the personal experience of the Saint of sterling character. Naturally pointing this stuff out to atheists is a waste of time as they are generally cranks, but its worth repeating so normal people don't fall under their spell. - Ben Horvath Sun, 04 Dec 2011 11:32:23 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/belief-knowledge-and-certainty.html#comment-9085 Prof. Bonagura: Thank you for this well written essay. After the recent Bishops' conference in Baltimore, an ordinary who attended explained to a priest friend of mine (in a diocesan group) that 80% of "Catholics" in the U.S. do not not defer completely to the authority of the Church. I believe these "Catholics" are referred to as "cafeteria Catholics", i.e., they pick and choose what they will believe and follow. Messrs. Dawkins, Harris and Hitchens whom you cite are not, in my opinion, the problem, but rather "Catholics" who are not Catholic. These "Catholics" are lost in this world and the next and the fault lies in the Church which has abdicated Its responsibility to teach them. Does any reader of TCT want to hear one more "Catholic", candidate or not, explain on TV when life begins? Fides Quarens Intellectum-Faith seeking understanding. The Third Edition of the Novus Ordo Mass? How about courses in MORAL THEOLOGY and APOLOGETICS every week from the pulpit AFTER the priests themselves have been trained. BTW, this might be one explanation as to why Immaculate Conception Seminary is being incorporated into St. Joseph's in Yonkers. Thank you once again for your thoughts. - Manfred Sun, 04 Dec 2011 04:21:03 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2011/belief-knowledge-and-certainty.html#comment-9084 Those who put their faith in the accidental formation of DNA, that desire can't exist because it isn't empirical, that good and bad are non terms and that truth = material relationships piled up by accident are foolish by definition. But such a faith allows one to get about doing what one wishes, obedient only to one's whim, so it is an extremely seductive religion. Many have been sacrificed on that cold and empty altar. - Other Joe Sun, 04 Dec 2011 03:00:55 +0100