Comments for Divine Impatience at http://www.thecatholicthing.org , comment 1 to 13 out of 13 comments http://www.thecatholicthing.org Tue, 21 May 2013 21:23:15 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/divine-impatience.html#comment-9641 I think one aspect of this debate that was overlooked by the article is that employees of a Catholic institution are not necessarily Catholic. Insurance is a benefit earned by employees. In America many people have no other way to get insurance than through their employer. The government is protecting the people from religious interference from their employers who in this case would enforce their views on them against their own interests. They are happy to take their labor though. I think Catholics should focus on leadership and persuasion. If they are right then they should be very successful. In addition they could lobby to get employers out of the insurance business altogether. Why is the insurance system set up such that employers are wrapped up in healthcare decisions anyway? - atheist Thu, 26 Jan 2012 16:02:32 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/divine-impatience.html#comment-9632 D - You're simply wrong, even at the factual level. The "new rules" specify huge fines for any institution that chooses not to offer health insurance any longer because of the moral conflict. The University of Notre Dame, for example, would have to pay $10 million a year in penalties, just for starters - Robert Royal Thu, 26 Jan 2012 04:25:57 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/divine-impatience.html#comment-9631 There are those of us pro-lifers, who believe that abortion and birth control are necessary in today's society just like it was necessary and often performed in "biblical" society. The church doesn't have to abide by the new rules as long as they expect to not have any federal, tax-payers $$$ go into their hospitals and clinics. No more medicaid, medicare insurance pay-outs, no gov't subsidies, and tax breaks ever. NOTHING! - D Thu, 26 Jan 2012 04:06:13 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/divine-impatience.html#comment-9622 On Monday morning, I attended the 6:30AM mass which on that day was the special pro-life mass as approved by the bishops' conference. For the first time monsignor took the occasion to speak clearly and emphatically about "religious liberty." I was somewhat surprised but reassured. By the time I graduated from law school in 1994, it was clear that the legal establishment -- of which the current president is a member in good standing -- was hostile to the Christian faith in general and the Church strongly in the particular. I appreciate Robert Royal's suggestion but it has been my experience since my conversion in 2009, that 9 out of 10 Catholics I speak with are "wobbly" on Catholic teachings regarding human life and naive about the decades-old threat to religious freedom in the U.S. There is a disposition for liberty that may not always be founded on an intellectual understanding but which possesses a gut instinct for freedom. This has been our strength since 1776 and before. It is the invisible crisis in this election year. I hope that Robert Royal and other Catholic writers will make this the focus of their thoughts and writing in 2012. The stakes could not be higher. - Graham Combs Tue, 24 Jan 2012 17:28:44 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/divine-impatience.html#comment-9616 Louise's example is pointing out the problem: secular left-wing ideology is the Trojan Horse inside the Catholic Church. The institutions captured from within have now grown so big, that they can 'speciate,' and break away, having grown themselves under the protection of the church, they now throw the Church under the bus. Like so many so-called 'Catholic' colleges, which are the next set of institutions to proclaim their 'majority' from Mother Church. - Chris in Maryland Tue, 24 Jan 2012 03:48:59 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/divine-impatience.html#comment-9611 Never mind. Just found out when I read the headline, "Catholic Health Care West Cut Its ties to the Catholic Church." And, I guess I forgot for a moment what happened in the Archdiocese of Boston. - Louise Mon, 23 Jan 2012 11:43:41 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/divine-impatience.html#comment-9610 What would happen if . . .? What would happen if Catholic institutions simply did no comply. If, as a unified coalition, they just said "no"? - Louise Mon, 23 Jan 2012 11:35:37 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/divine-impatience.html#comment-9609 Well said Dr. Royal. Thank you for helping to shine a light on this regime's war against religion generally, and the Catholic Church specifically.You have framed the question well. Alexis de Tocqueville said that, "Every fresh generation is a new people". I believe we forget the necessity of repetition in the learning process. We must, as a society, teach our citizenry First Principals continually. In a democracy this is essential. You and your colleagues at The Catholic Thing are doing just that. - Ray Hunkins Mon, 23 Jan 2012 11:13:36 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/divine-impatience.html#comment-9608 Dr. Royal: Since I was a lad I have heard from both ecclesial and secular quarters that "Caesar's wife must be beyond reproach." How much more important is this than in an Institution which claims Divine Origin. We are witnessing the failure of the Church and Its leaders to enforce discipline among Its members. Abp Bruskewitz of Nebraska excommunicated anyone who was a member of Planned Parenthood, Call to Action or the SSPX. Whether one agreed with him or not, you knew Church discipline was important to him. Abp Nienstedt is also trying to enforce discipline in his diocese. One can count the Ordinaries enforcing discipline on one hand. The primary reason my responses on TCT are so sharp is that after fifty years, I am tired of witnessing the stupidity and the venality of so many Church leaders and faithful. The secular world no longer takes us seriously. We have six Catholics on the Supreme Court. It is surely time they started acting as Catholics. - Manfred Mon, 23 Jan 2012 09:48:35 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/divine-impatience.html#comment-9607 It does seem undeniably true that millions of Catholics are content to have the government impose fiats against the Church, to legitimize under the veneer of legal 'compulsion' what so many of these Catholics already truly hold, an 'anti-life' ideology. It is sobering to face...the war for life is a civil war within the church. - Chris in Maryland Mon, 23 Jan 2012 07:02:43 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/divine-impatience.html#comment-9604 Manfred: Don't you think you are being just a bit too precious about this question. For the sake of this political decision, it doesn't much matter what failures have existed within Catholic institutions. The point is that the federal government now thinks it can tell religious institutions where their moral limits are. An LA Times editorial that I saw after this column was written praised the "balance" of the decision: individuals get to decide whether to use the immoral services - and the Church institutions get to pay. That's the moral idiocy to which our public discourse is reduced by this political flimflammery. Maybe the Supremes will step up, as they did last week, and enforce not only ministerial exceptions but moral exemptions for religious institutions. But it's a sad state of affairs when the first of human rights may hinge on a swing vote or two among a handful of judges. - Robert Royal Mon, 23 Jan 2012 04:27:10 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/divine-impatience.html#comment-9603 Nearly every news report and commentary fails to mention that the regulation includes sterilization. - Jim Thunder Mon, 23 Jan 2012 03:48:16 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/divine-impatience.html#comment-9602 This issue is not as straightforward as it appears. If you go to the Cardinal Newman Society website, they will say, that by using the criteria they have selected, only about ten percent of the 231 colleges and universities in the U.S. which claim to be Catholic are truly Catholic. Many Catholic hospitals have been performing tubal ligations, etc., prescribing contraceptives and abortion referrals for years. In an unrelated case, Manhattan College was found by a court to not in fact be a Catholic college as it met none of the criteria of a Catholic institution other than to claim a "Catholic tradition". You see, the governments, both State and Federal, will look in our windows and see what has been known for years-that so-called "Catholic" institutions are massive frauds. The Vatican has known this for years. First Sapientia Christiana in the early 70s and the Ex Corde Ecclesia in 1990 were both issued to bring these colleges/universities back from being merely commercial enterprises to being truly Catholic in word and deed. The Vatican/hierarchy have largely failed as Obama at Notre Dame in 2009 proved conclusively. Whether it is predator priests or secular schools/hospitals posturing as "Catholic", governments will come in and point out the Church's failures. A truly Catholic school, Belmont Abbey College, has retained the Becket Fund and is suing Health and Human Services (HHS). The College is insisting that in the event they lose, they will either drop their group health plan or close the school. THAT is integrity. What a rare quality in an institution calling itself Catholic. - Manfred Mon, 23 Jan 2012 02:26:43 +0100