Comments for Political Withdrawal? at http://www.thecatholicthing.org , comment 1 to 30 out of 20 comments http://www.thecatholicthing.org Mon, 20 May 2013 17:17:49 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/political-withdrawal.html#comment-10088 Excellent article. I suggest a strategic withdrawl to "seek first the Kingdom of God..." so that we might fight another day. - Wanda Fri, 24 Feb 2012 14:01:05 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/political-withdrawal.html#comment-10077 The answer is guerrilla activities...in professing our faith what other means exists - Steve Newark Fri, 24 Feb 2012 02:19:17 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/political-withdrawal.html#comment-10076 More to the point is the fact that by withdrawing from a persecuting enemy, a more true and opposite culture will continue and must continue....through a type of forced guerrilla activity. It will happen organized and actuated by "The Church Militant". Simbolized by say, something as simple as the motivations depicted in the famous film Ben-Hur. - Steve Newark Fri, 24 Feb 2012 02:15:45 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/political-withdrawal.html#comment-10071 I, for one, find my intellect a bit lacking compared to St. Augustine. Who am I to say he wasn't right? My goodness, he launched the great Middle Ages with his withdraw. - Dylan Thu, 23 Feb 2012 06:19:31 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/political-withdrawal.html#comment-10068 Who is going to withdraw, as if we were hermits? The only option is to disobey. We cannot render unto Caesar what is not his. - Bob Allen Wed, 22 Feb 2012 16:29:37 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/political-withdrawal.html#comment-10065 But see Christifideles Laici ! - Charles Molineaux Wed, 22 Feb 2012 13:29:12 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/political-withdrawal.html#comment-10062 To Walt re: "The majority of revenue that Catholic dioceses recevies comes from the federal government..." Walt - if that is the case sir, then you have just explained what's gone wrong with the Church in America...if what you say is the case, then The Church has made a Faustian bargain, and the devil has now come to collect. I suggest that, if what you say is true, then the answer is simple, stop taking money from people who oppose the kingship and law of Christ. - Chris in Maryland Wed, 22 Feb 2012 09:12:25 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/political-withdrawal.html#comment-10061 Who is John Galt? - Tom Wed, 22 Feb 2012 08:25:38 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/political-withdrawal.html#comment-10055 Serious readers may wish to review the Decree against Communism (1949) in Italy which resulted in the largest number of excommunications probably in Church history. Membership in the Italian Communist Pary was condemned. Pius XII insisted that Italian Catholics do all in their power, including the voting booth, in order to drive this threat from Italy. Parallels to what is occurring in this country are obvious. - Manfred Tue, 21 Feb 2012 18:41:00 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/political-withdrawal.html#comment-10054 "Never give in, never give in, never, never, never - - in nothing, great or small, large or petty - - never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense" "We have not journeyed all this way across the centuries, across the oceans, across the mountains, across the prairies, because we are made of sugar candy." - Ray Hunkins Tue, 21 Feb 2012 17:16:57 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/political-withdrawal.html#comment-10052 This reminds me a bit of Flannery O'Connor's remark that the Christian artist is both of this world and an exile from it. I was watching the "Catholicism" series at my church the other day and it was the first time I felt really happy in weeks. I've been so angry about politics, drawn into the culture which is so sick. It made me think that I was concentrating on the wrong things when the great life of faith is what matters. - Ann Tue, 21 Feb 2012 12:12:48 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/political-withdrawal.html#comment-10051 I don't think we have to worry too much about when it will become necessary to withdraw from society, because if we don't defeat this current power grab, we are going to end up getting kicked out of society anyway. Keep fighting and see what happens. - Brian English Tue, 21 Feb 2012 11:55:10 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/political-withdrawal.html#comment-10050 (I am a different contributor from "Walt" above.) Fr. Schall asks the wrong question. If President Obama is re-elected, it will not be without significant support from Catholic voters. That is a mathematical fact. Therefore, under such a scenario, the question is not about whether the faithful should withdraw from public life. Rather, the question is profoundly focused on the Church itself: what do the bishops say and do if Catholics - after listening to a well-publicized Church effort and considering the well-being of their souls - give Obama 54% of their vote on November 6, 2012 as they did in 2008? - Walter Tue, 21 Feb 2012 10:18:42 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/political-withdrawal.html#comment-10049 This is a great discussion, but I think one point is being missed, namely, that by participating in a political democracy by voting and running for office, you are conferring legitimacy not only of the type of government but also the decisions which flow from the government's policies. That's obvious stuff. But when a government turns on its citizens like Obama has done, it makes no sense to engage with it. Power does not listen to reason. It grows like a tumor until something can choke its oxygen supply. The "oxygen" of voting just keeps alive a system that we know is against us. - Scott Quinn Tue, 21 Feb 2012 09:43:13 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/political-withdrawal.html#comment-10048 "Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's." Our Catholic Church must make a decision if this is the argument the leadership carries itself forward with. The majority of revenue that Catholic dioceses recevies comes from the federal government which comes from tax paying Americans of all creeds. Without these funds, the Church would be faced with widespread closures and the inability to offer crucial services. The realities of the health care bill do not put practicing Catholics in a position to choose between faith and employement, hyperbole has driven the discussion away from the facts. I know the tax connotations of the Matthew passage but I have also always taken it to mean that it is our responsibility to play our role in a larger society including its government. Catholics have nothing to gain from politcal withdrawal, in this world or any other. - Walt Tue, 21 Feb 2012 08:31:27 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/political-withdrawal.html#comment-10047 "...Our parents did not come to these shores to help build America's cities and towns, its infrastructure and institutions, its enterprise and culture, only to have their posterity stripped of their God given rights. In generations past, the Church has always been able to count on the faithful to stand up and protect her sacred rights and duties. I hope and trust she can count on this generation of Catholics to do the same. Our Children and granchildren deserve nothing less." Cardinal-designate Timothy M. Dolan,Archbishop of New York February 9, 2012 - Manfred Tue, 21 Feb 2012 08:21:23 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/political-withdrawal.html#comment-10045 Agree with Howard. No time to retreat we need to rally the believers and we need to have our theologians, priests and Bishops take the lead to form a strong united Catholic front. Other religions and constitutional-purists will be fighting the battle on other fronts. We can not and should not disengage, as mentioned earlier, we cannot hide or think we will be safe in a cocoon. God is on our side, this is the ultimate battle Pope Leo XIII was speaking about, Lepanto revisited. - Alex Winogradoff Tue, 21 Feb 2012 07:22:21 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/political-withdrawal.html#comment-10043 Brothers and sisters, a withdrawal from investiture in public life or from contribution to the polity as Fr. Schall presents it is not an abandonment of our moral duty, it is the furthering of it. To put our efforts into evangelizing our Catholic brothers and sisters who are more confused about the “proper order of things” than we are is our duty. It is a much stronger commitment to the common good than is our interest in partisan politics. It is the more difficult path and the much louder statement than the fantasy of reforming the polity (as if such power is at our disposal). 4 more years of Obama and we may reach a point of no return akin to Sodom and Gomorrah. Perhaps today we are more like Nineveh. I think Professor Esolen has it just right. A withdrawal from “partisan politics” and into the common good of the neighborhood is just the thing to do. Add to that an attack on the Leviathan and we are fighting the good fight. The Dideche says “let the alms sweat in your hands until you know to whom you give.” A shift from the anonymous charity to love of neighbor is the withdrawal we need. - Achilles Tue, 21 Feb 2012 06:40:54 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/political-withdrawal.html#comment-10042 This sounds too much like a call for retreat or surrender, when the grunts fighting against overwhelming odds are looking for encouraging words to give them hope of victory. - Howard Kainz Tue, 21 Feb 2012 06:14:38 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/political-withdrawal.html#comment-10041 I am a "bad" Catholic...in terms of my participation in the faith...and I love Fr. Schall and all the regulars here...but the arguments made by Obama/Administration/Media are too weak for us to give up. This may sound strange - it was important for Obama to get rid of Glenn Beck. Since then, they have won a lot of public relation battles. But all it takes is one person to say the right things to get his turned around. (Yes, I know Glenn Beck had his faults too). - Stanley Tue, 21 Feb 2012 06:11:24 +0100