Comments for Piggyback at http://www.thecatholicthing.org , comment 1 to 17 out of 17 comments http://www.thecatholicthing.org Tue, 21 May 2013 22:19:20 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/piggyback.html#comment-10192 Hmmm I have read and re-read the lyrics to A Mighty Fortress and I don't see anything 'anti-Catholic' about it. Its a wonderful tune and, frankly, it has quite wonderful lyrics. Martin Luther did a lot of good for the Catholic church, since his actions led to the Council of Trent and the Counter-reformation and, frankly, the Church was in great need of reformation at that time. - Tom Thu, 01 Mar 2012 12:48:13 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/piggyback.html#comment-10146 A funny thing happens in our parish every lent. Instead of the usual " musical " fare, we sing the main parts of the Mass in Latin - Kyrie Sanctus, Angus Dei. It's the chior master's idea of making the entire parish do Penance. Little do they know that some of us look foreward to Lent as a reward for suffering through eight months of musical horror. - Linus Tue, 28 Feb 2012 08:51:07 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/piggyback.html#comment-10141 Luther's "Mighty Fortress" has no place in Catholic hymnals. It was written as an anti-Catholic fight song. One only has to do a little fact checking to find that out. And when you consider that ol'Marty called the Pope very Anti-Christ, hellish father, born out of the devil's rear end, and other slanderous, libelous names to the day of his death, it should be plain that "Mighty Fortress" is anti-Catholic propaganda. - Stephen E Dalton Tue, 28 Feb 2012 04:36:09 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/piggyback.html#comment-10134 I write this as a former parish organist and a currently active choir member. Pope Benedict has repeatedly said that true liturgy is about one thing: worshiping God.  From that perspective, there is little value then in judging the Catholic orthodoxy of a deceased hymn writer.  The Pope also recognized the value of non-Catholic Christian cultural patrimony (of which music is a part) through his generous creation of the Anglican ordinariate. Practically speaking, no one has a monopoly on good hymnody.  Catholics have had their fair share of clunkers (both old and new) just like Protestants.  So Catholics should joyfully incorporate music from other Christian traditions into the liturgy by following some simple guidelines: (1) the tune is reverent and has musical depth, (2) it leads the congregation to worship God (vs. entertaining them), (3) the congregation can actually sing it, (4) it is consistent with Catholic beliefs and not prohibited by the Church, and (5) it is done with discretion, balance and careful planning. Using these criteria, I would exclude the Lord of the Dance (doesn't come close), but most certainly include A Mighty Fortress, a wonderful hymn.  The last time I checked, the hymn text was effusive in its praise for Jesus Christ and did not mention Martin Luther once. Is it worth the bother?  Absolutely.  Anything that can allow us to worship God more fully in liturgy is worthy of our efforts.  So on occasion, supplement Latin and chant and Marian hymns with a Protestant hymn, an Anglican anthem, an African-American spiritual or a Taize chant.  It can indeed be done with integrity. - DS Mon, 27 Feb 2012 14:31:25 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/piggyback.html#comment-10133 Dave, check out the Simple English Propers by Adam Bartlett on the Church Music of Association of America's site (and online booksellers). It has chanted entrance, offertory and communion propers for Mass in English! Corpus Christi Watershed has preserved all the chant propers in Latin for the year as well. As well, ICEL has revised into English the chanted ordinary of the Mass with the familiar chant melodies (e.g. Credo III) as suggested by Pope Paul VI back in 1974. Mr. Miner's link to the St. Cecilia Schola recordings have many of these. Now to get more parishes to use them... - MikeG Mon, 27 Feb 2012 13:16:28 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/piggyback.html#comment-10129 Joseph, There is plenty of good royalty free music out there including in standard notation as well as chant and solid hymns. There is no reason for any parish to search for the music that is ours as Catholics. Check out the website of Musica Sacra. There you'll find simple English Propers for the Entrance, Offeratory and Communion in simple chant notation. Also the simple Choral Gradual has the propers for the Entrance, Offertory and Communion in simple standard notation. For those parishes who want/need to sing a hymn after the proper there are two new great solid hymnals out there in addition to the latest Adoremus hymnal: Vatican II Hymnal, and the Lumen Christi Missal All this is out there and available. - Mary Mon, 27 Feb 2012 12:19:58 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/piggyback.html#comment-10127 "Give up the shaky, sentimental hymns and return to Gregorian chant" Oh please God! Why on earth do so few use the Gregorian chant, it's so stunningly beautiful, so deeply spiritual, so very Catholic! My own parish uses some pretty rotten music, though not all is so bad. But given that this is MASS, you know...that whole body and blood of Christ thing...you'd think they would have choosen better!!! - Aeneas Mon, 27 Feb 2012 11:01:19 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/piggyback.html#comment-10126 I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one upset by "Lord of the Dance", and "Mighty Fortress" being in our hymnals. BTW, you could have added "Amazing Grace" too. Catholic worship should only use Catholic music. Yet, when Michael Voris of Real Catholic TV criticized AG, Mark Shea and Dave Armstrong, two prominent catholic bloggers, roasted him for daring to suggest that non-Catholic music has no place in our worship. I supported Voris by saying Catholic music for Catholic people. Mr Armstrong labeled me a Pharisee for saying that. Oh well! - Stephen E Dalton Mon, 27 Feb 2012 10:58:23 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/piggyback.html#comment-10124 thanks for the great article! - beez Mon, 27 Feb 2012 08:43:09 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/piggyback.html#comment-10123 It is kind of silly to attack "A Mighty Fortress" because it was written by Luther. Is there anything theologically unsound in it? I found no reason to reject it because it was written by a Protestant! It is an inspiring and rousing hymn. Does it not make more sense to accept the good and reject the bad? For ecumenical, aesthetic and liturgical reasons, I strongly support keeping it as an optional. HH Pope Benedict XVI expressed an admiration for and quote Luther only a few months ago? It is "traditional Catholics" who will blindly reject everything that they see as tainted by evil who are harmful to our mother Church. But I do agree with you about the liturgical dancing and heretical pantheism. That is blatantly scandalous. - jeremiah Mon, 27 Feb 2012 08:39:33 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/piggyback.html#comment-10121 Pope Benedict recognized the value of non-Catholic Christian cultural patrimony (of which music is a large part) when he established the Anglican ordinariate, and of course we share a baptismal bond with all Protestants.  Further, Catholics don't have a monopoly on good hymnody.  Catholic hymns (both old and new), have had their fair share of clunkers, just like Protestant ones.  So we should joyfully incorporate music from other Christian traditions into the liturgy provided that (1) the tune is reverent and has musical depth, (2) it leads the congregation to worship God (vs. entertaining them), (3) the congregation can actually sing it, and (4) it is consistent with Catholic beliefs and not explicitly forbidden. Using these criteria, I would exclude the Lord of the Dance, but most certainly include A Mighty Fortress, a wonderful hymn that praises Jesus Christ, not Martin Luther. The object of music worship is to glorify God, not test the orthodoxy of the hymn composer. - DS Mon, 27 Feb 2012 07:33:52 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/piggyback.html#comment-10120 The music at my church, especially the new music for the ordinary of the Mass which was chosen to be suitable for the "praise and worship" Mass (setting is "Mass of Renewal") and was implemented for almost all Masses even weekdays, is driving me nuts (they do use certain Latin chants sometimes but not the ICEL missal chants). There is also very little good judgement about hymns. Sunday mornings I attend an EF Mass so I now know what the music proper to the Roman Rite is actually like. It makes the poor choices at many Novus Ordo Masses that much harder to bear. - Elizabeth D Mon, 27 Feb 2012 07:05:33 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/piggyback.html#comment-10118 Could someone clear up my confusion on this point (with apologies before hand if I am asking too much!): why is it that the Latin setting isn't translated into the local language, ie English, with the setting/form retained? Why is that the form, timing, arrangement of the altar, vestments & etc. were not retained and simply the language changed? - Darren Mon, 27 Feb 2012 06:25:07 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/piggyback.html#comment-10117 "proclaiming myself unworthy that God should enter under my roof. And He has said the word, and I am healed." This seems to be a theme in current reflections. The very day when I was berating myself for my lack of generosity, my penuriousness in my devotion to our Lord, I came upon these words from St. Teresa of Avila: "Oh, what a hard thing I am asking of you, my true God, that you should love one who does not love you; that you should open the door to one who does not knock; that you should give health to one who prefers to be sick and chooses rather to walk in her infirmity! You say, my Lord, that you have come to seek out sinners. These, my Lord, are the true sinners. Do not look on our blindness, oh my God, but at the streams of blood that your Son shed for us. May your mercy shine on such grave wickedness; remember, Lord, that we were made by your hands." (St. Teresa, Exclamations of the soul to God, 8, from Fernandex: "In Conversation with God", Scepter Press, p. 21.) I hope that helps. God be with you. - Louise Mon, 27 Feb 2012 06:13:37 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/piggyback.html#comment-10116 Oh that the chants of the Liber Usualis, with its propers and ordinaries, were translated into English for use at Mass! Historically, hymns were sung in the Daily Office only. The antiphons, graduals, sequences, offertories and communion antiphons are the words of Sacred Scripture itself or tied directly to it. We have needlessly given up a great heritage that nourished the faithful for two millenia. Give up the shaky, sentimental hymns and return to Gregorian chant, in Latin or in English, and watch people return to Mass. - Dave Mon, 27 Feb 2012 05:22:07 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/piggyback.html#comment-10115 Re: fine English for the Liturgy Converts and The Symphony of Truth | First Things Jan 11, 2012. George Weigel. Why do adults become Catholics? There are as ... - Bill Russell Mon, 27 Feb 2012 05:01:09 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/piggyback.html#comment-10112 I'm an organist, and our tri-parish had a hard time finding a Gloria. We settled on the old Christian Unity Mass for a singable Gloria that sounds like real prayer. For the Mystery of Faith, we use simple chant. For the Agnus Dei it's Latin and simple. That Shaker song and Fortress have never been played. Up to date lyric changes also sadly render old favorites unusable. The hymnals are thick, but take away the Spanish, the altered hymns, and the unusable, there's about 50 songs at 4 per Mass to spread over the Ordinary Year, Advent, Christmas, Lent and Easter. We just squeak by. - Joseph Mon, 27 Feb 2012 01:24:49 +0100