Comments for Elections and the Changing Catholic Demographic at http://www.thecatholicthing.org , comment 1 to 14 out of 14 comments http://www.thecatholicthing.org Wed, 19 Jun 2013 19:20:40 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/elections-and-the-changing-catholic-demographic.html#comment-10611 The archdiocese of Chicago confirmed recently that the teachings of the Church concerning the 5th Commandment are still the same as they were in the 1958 publication of, "Life in Christ - Instructions in the Catholic Faith." This teaching says that "religious and racial prejudice" are "sins against the fifth commandment." They are sins "against justice as well as charity." Then it says, "This is particularly true in the case of JOINING an organization which promotes segregation or ANY OTHER DENIAL OF HUMAN RIGHTS." (my emphasis) Guess what. That Catholic teaching which the archdiocese of Chicago confirms is still the teaching of the Church makes being a Democrat a sin against the 5th Commandment. Catholics who register to vote as a Democrat have "joined" an "organization" that denies the "human right" of life to the unborn children. What do you think about that? - Stilbellieve Tue, 27 Mar 2012 19:16:55 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/elections-and-the-changing-catholic-demographic.html#comment-10510 George: This is a good start at understanding what happened to the ethnic Catholics in America but for the big picture one needs to read the real history of the Sixties in "Slaughter of the Cites" - Jack Amadan Fri, 23 Mar 2012 10:41:16 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/elections-and-the-changing-catholic-demographic.html#comment-10486 Thank you Thomas. I appreciate your clarification. No, sadly, I have seen far too much of eveything you decry. I attribute it all to the excellent and terrible work of Satan and his efficient use of the failed enlightenment experiment, moral relativism, and the trick of light that has fooled so many into mistaking these dark times for pogress. I am deeply saddened by all that is going on and I think your use of the word fire gets at the terror of it all and at the rapidity with which the poison is spreading. Thanks again Thomas. - Achilles Fri, 23 Mar 2012 04:00:15 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/elections-and-the-changing-catholic-demographic.html#comment-10483 Dear Achilles: I would never denigrate the Norvuss Ordo as it was promulgated and intended to be clebrated. If it were always celebrated as we see on EWTN and accompanied by homilies such as those we hear from Fr. Mitch and others we would not be be in the fix that we are in. You are fortunate if you have not seen the chaos that I witness and descirbed earlier in which we hear the words of the Mass improvised and homilies full of error. All across the the US and Europe there are adult Catholics who who do not even know what the Chruch teaches. Last Sunday when I expressed surpise that students in a Confirmation class had never even heard of Purgatory and then opined that they should certainly know of it before their first confessions a pious lady told me that when she prepares children for First Reconcilliation she "doesn't go there." I cannot help but associate this chaos with the sounds of "folk masses"--liturgical music derived from an idiom--erzats folk music-- invented for the very purpose spreading Communism. I am not writing about poor peasants but about Catholic college educated men and women who innocently embrace relativism. No, it is not just the liberties taken with the Litrugy that are at the root of the problem, of course. But I believe that liturgical chaos leads to doctrinal chaos, and that then leads to moral chaos. So you are right. I should not have suggested that one could judge the Novus Ordo--as properly celebrated--with Cafeteria Catholicism. So let me find some other symbol for this chaos in which Catholics have never heard of Purgatory and so do not pray for the souls there. How about Guitar Mass Land? Or simply Liturical and Doctrinal Chaos Land? Someone has to admit that the Church is on fire, and if my unkind turn of phrase deteres anyone from picking up a bucket I'd better find a better way to characterize the fire. But grab some hoses and buckets, everyone! Time's a'wastin'! - Thomas C. Coleman, Jr. Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:58:10 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/elections-and-the-changing-catholic-demographic.html#comment-10482 Thomas Coleman, I always enjoy your comments. While I am certainly not offended, I am perplexed. I am a new Catholic and I am enormously drawn to the EF Latin Mass. However, I have spent my short time as a member of the Body of Christ in the Novus Ordo Mass. It was promulgated by Vatican II. Admittedly, the original English translation was very poor, the new one is good, but would you really go so far as to say it promotes heresy? I wouldn’t, but I am a neophyte. It sends shivers down my spine to hear otherwise fine Catholics bad mouth the Novus Ordo when perhaps it is NOT the root of the problem. If it is the root, I am just a confused soul, if it isn’t, then all the “not heretics” in the pews at the traditional mass that choose to speak so poorly of the Novus Ordo are bold to say the least and perhaps verging on disrespectful if not disobedient. Surely we will be forgiven if our humble obedience to Mother Church has by some trick of the great deceiver been misplaced, but it occurs to me that to err on the side of obedience to Holy Mother Church with a stance of humble submission might be more profitable than willful defiance against the Novus Ordo. It also occurs to me that to judge the Novus Ordo by all the cafeteria Catholics is judging by appearances and not right judgment. I would appreciate any clarification of my errors in thinking, please pray for me, Achilles - Achilles Thu, 22 Mar 2012 13:15:12 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/elections-and-the-changing-catholic-demographic.html#comment-10481 I'm in an urban parish in the bluest state in the union, Rhode Island. It's an old Italian parish, with a terrific pastor who regularly preaches about the evil of abortion, and the silly contradictions of the secular world. There are no Obama bumper stickers in our parking lot. In my experience, people who aren't hardened by the stupidities of higher education (!) are amenable to being taught the faith, wherever they may be. It requires a frank and appealing teacher. - Tony Esolen Thu, 22 Mar 2012 13:04:33 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/elections-and-the-changing-catholic-demographic.html#comment-10479 Out here in Novus Ordo Land there are many Cafeteria Catholics (pcik and shooise the doctrines you like) who would never think of themselves as fallen away Catholics. Such people teach CCD and serve as Eucharistic ministers, and even if they have been told that voting for candidates BECAUSE they favor abortion and homosexual marriage is a grave sin they do not believe it, having been told that Vatican II abolished Chruch authority. Add to this the numbers of those who are pro-life but are tacitly encouraged to back pro-aborts on the grounds that opening our national borders is more important than protecting innocent human life. What are Catholics supposed to think when even cardinals will not refuse Communion to outspoken pro-aborts? If I have offended anyone by my refence to Novus Ordo Land, let me remind you that few if any heretics are in the pews at Tradtional Masses. - Thomas C. Coleman, Jr. Thu, 22 Mar 2012 09:58:23 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/elections-and-the-changing-catholic-demographic.html#comment-10478 Jacob - you have misunderstood this article. - Chris in Maryland Thu, 22 Mar 2012 09:10:40 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/elections-and-the-changing-catholic-demographic.html#comment-10477 I second all that Brad Miner and Robert Royal have written. Mr. Marlin's column is descriptive. My one reservation about it is the hope it pins on Latino Catholics. There is mounting evidence that they defect from the Church in fairly high numbers, to join evangelical sects, or that they, too, are cultural Catholics, relying on the Church for sacraments of initiation, matrimony, and departure, but not necessarily in line with all the teachings of the Church. As for Mr. Santorum, as I have commented earlier, his tendency to "wing it" under the notion that this is what is sincere makes him look ill-prepared for a serious candidacy against President Obama, let alone ready to run the Federal Government. We are to be as wise as serpents and innocent as doves -- the wisdom is important. He has advanced several important truths, ideas, and propositions in this campaign, but often does so in a manner that is risible. It's no wonder so many Catholics refuse to endorse his candidacy. Finally, the state of catechesis is so deplorable I doubt you can find more than a handful in any congregation who understands why the Church teaches what she does: and so they are rejecting not the Catholic Faith but a stalking horse thereof. This state of affairs must be laid squarely at the feet of the bishops, who still, remarkably, are not speaking publicly on the immorality of artificial forms of birth control in whatever guise and still speak only of "conscience." One wonders, now that HHS has published a 32-page addendum designed to assuage Catholic voters, whether that document includes conscience protections for individual believers, not just institutions, and whether the bishops will press on and militate for the rights of the individual as well as of the institutions. In any event, George Soros has already told us there is no real difference between Obama and Romney. We're in a real tough spot. - Dave Thu, 22 Mar 2012 09:01:56 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/elections-and-the-changing-catholic-demographic.html#comment-10476 Let me add to Brad Miner's post that it is not the business of The Catholic Thing to be a RINO or not. Our concern is to be Catholic or not. Part of being Catholic involves recognizing the truth, wherever it lies. And George Marlin knows many truths -- some unwelcome -- about the so-called Catholic vote. Read his book. And be careful of confusing a description of what is the case at the moment with advocacy. - Robert Royal Thu, 22 Mar 2012 08:07:29 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/elections-and-the-changing-catholic-demographic.html#comment-10475 Tomorrow, Friday, March 23rd, there are going to be Catholic-sponsored rallies across the Country in support of the First Amendment Right of Freedom of Religion. This might be a good time for Catholics, and others, who visit this site to turn orthodoxy into orthopraxis. Various websites have the particulars for each state. - Manfred Thu, 22 Mar 2012 07:49:43 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/elections-and-the-changing-catholic-demographic.html#comment-10474 I think the "Catholic vote" has become largely a creation of analysts and social scientists. Catholics have supported the winner in the last several elections by about the same margin as the electorate as a whole. So where is the "Catholic vote?" Why are we even talking about it as a distinctive entity? Also, I think the political differences between practicing Catholics and self identified Catholics are greatly overstated..and I think recent Pew surveys support this as well as tons of anecdata. There are plenty of Catholics who attend Mass weekly with liberal attitudes on gay marriage and birth control and sometimes even abortion just as there are still many purely cultural Catholics who are socially conservative, but only show up to Church for funerals, weddings and maybe Christmas. Do you doubt me?? Show up at your average suburban parish on Sunday and see how many Obama bumper stickers there are. By contrast, go to a parish in a small town in a more conservative area and you will see exactly the opposite. Catholics are conservative in conservative areas and less so in less conservative areas. The real issue here it seems to me is that practicing one's faith really seems not to have that much influence on the way one views the world. Catholics have just been absorbed into the larger society! - jsmitty Thu, 22 Mar 2012 06:31:46 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/elections-and-the-changing-catholic-demographic.html#comment-10473 To Jacob: George Marlin is no RINO. Indeed, there's nothing to suggest it in his column. I think you ought to consider more carefully whether you are commenting about the column at hand or simply venting your personal frustrations. In any event, you could not be more wrong about Mr. Marlin. - Brad Miner Thu, 22 Mar 2012 06:07:29 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/elections-and-the-changing-catholic-demographic.html#comment-10472 We're you turned off by his "shrill rhetoric" Mr. Marlin? I suppose you're a JFK Catholic though and you're above all that abortion and condom stuff right? I expect this kind of stuff on National review where a bunch of RINOs have taken over Bill Buckley's legacy, but I'm literally not going to have anywhere to go anymore if even you guys turn into enlightened RINOs who tell us how only Catholics who keep their mouths shut about their beliefs can be a part of public life. A well respected Catholic scholar and his wife brought me to the faith. You can imagine my shock when they eagerly advocated for Barack Obama. Then they refused to talk to me any longer because I called them out on it and apparently they thought it was a one way faith relationship. You my friend are in the spirit of a Cafeteria Catholic. You want to be wise and mysterious Catholic statesman but all you do is betray your own church to look sophisticated for people who will always despise you. Enjoy preaching the faith of only talking about Jesus if it doesn't offend the protectors of the culture of death (sorry though bud, I'm gonna stick with the Pope on this one and keep sharing my beliefs no matter who it offends)!!! - Jacob Thu, 22 Mar 2012 05:34:17 +0100