Comments for The Modern Amputation at http://www.thecatholicthing.org , comment 1 to 16 out of 16 comments http://www.thecatholicthing.org Sun, 26 May 2013 03:30:31 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/the-modern-amputation.html#comment-10696 Brian, there is no answer to the questions you pose because they do not match what is in the heart of the liberal. I am saying this with empathy and understanding for I grew up in a household of liberal bitterness. It wasn't until I had children of my own that I decided I did not want the same for them. To rid myself of the bitterness I had to do a great deal of praying and soul searching. I also had to overcome the strong feeling of betrayal to my family. In my own journey I discovered the liberal was not journeying toward any of the things they claim to care about but in reality were attempting to destroy and run from the things that caused discomfort to their own self worth. In essence they despise the mirror provided by the things of higher calling no matter what form it came in I.e., music, liturgy, personal responsibility, great historical figures of virtue, non-negotiable truths, etc.. Hence the environment, the self, the government and anything else that can "level the playing field" and bring about "fairness00" becomes the new god. I see in your many post much of what I grew up with and what I have fought for years in myself. I do not wish to change your politics but the anger you seem to have and what I fully relate to. I found it by following the Church in the way she describes herself as opposed to the way I had described her. Once I did much of what I was angry about went away. God bless you and your search for the Truth. - Grady Sun, 01 Apr 2012 08:18:56 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/the-modern-amputation.html#comment-10668 I really enjoyed this commentary. It's true, today we do not think of people as whole persons -- a combination of body and soul, who live in relationship to others. We think of people as sovereign individuals who are ultimately free to do whatever they want to do, without reference to anyone else or anything else. And this is reflected in most modern hymns and church songs, or at least the ones I hear in my parish. The first time I ever heard some of the more traditional hymns that addressed the Trinity, I was in my late 30s. They blew me away. I could not have said why, then -- they simply told me that there was much MORE to things than the simplified, "be nice to the poor, you selfish, oppressive person" songs I was used to. There is more to God than that, there is more to people than that. The current reductionist "do whatever you want" philosophy profoundly trivializes people. It says nothing matters. People are not capable of much, there is nothing to them but whims and none of the whims are objectively different from any others. When society and the Church tells you that you really can't do anything THAT bad, it also means that you can't do anything THAT good. You are mediocre, and in fact, everything and everyone is mediocre. - Gail Finke Sat, 31 Mar 2012 04:42:39 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/the-modern-amputation.html#comment-10663 Thanks, Nancy! To Eric: I try to use the term "liberal" to refer to the libertarianism of both left and right; I use "leftist" to refer to the hard statism (and sexual revolutionism) of the current crop. I've written a good deal about the difference between liberty and autonomy -- and believe, with my friend David Hart, the orthodox theologian, that Ms. Rand is just appalling... - Tony Esolen Fri, 30 Mar 2012 18:28:38 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/the-modern-amputation.html#comment-10662 You don't mince words, do you, Tony? "Liturgical blockheads" indeed! Unfortunately, the church is infested with them and with far too many "composers" who trivialize the word of God by setting it to unbearably trite music--or worse yet, by providing trite and trivial words of their own, almost inevitably with not a little touch of narcissism. I look forward to meeting you, Tony! - Nancy de Flon Fri, 30 Mar 2012 10:14:18 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/the-modern-amputation.html#comment-10659 Of course, the Tridentine Mass is explicitly Trinitarian right down to its core, so I would heartily and charitably recommend that the author and his wife begin attending them... - lotr Fri, 30 Mar 2012 07:31:45 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/the-modern-amputation.html#comment-10652 Tony Esolen: Thank you for your reply. My comments focused on two points: 1. Marks points out that 80%-90% of Catholics live in an objective state of mortal sin. 2. Benedict's remark that he knows the Church is Divinely guided because It has survived the millions of homilies given on Sundays. Your focus is hymns, while mine is words. It is largely the words which have led Catholics into believing they are living in a state of grace while in reality they are living in sin. It won't be academic when we die and we are consigned to Hell because we believed in the spirit of Vat. II and other heterodox and heretical teachings. - Manfred Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:18:46 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/the-modern-amputation.html#comment-10651 Liberalism is a very tricky term and I've watched it redefined in my lifetime. In the 19th century "liberal" was a term that exalted the individual. That is why today's "libertarians" are the true heirs to people like Smith or Bentham. This view was rightly, in my view, attacked by JPII among others. The Darwinian world of the Herbert Spencer, Ayn Rand or Grover Gardner has no place in Christianity. New Deal liberalism was a different animal. It presupposed that society was greater than the sum of its parts and that a benign government had a place to play in mitigating the individual's freedom to fail. In a world conditioned by Christian ethics, this view, I believe was valid. In a world without them, the state can menace. But I do not want 21st century Catholics to become apologists for Ayn Rand (an atheist and a miserable author) because they have profound misgivings of secular society. Ultimately the secularism that threatens the faith is based just as firmly on the love of money by the winners in the market jungle as it is by the arbitrary desire for power pursued by the secular state's political organs. - Eric Bergerud Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:18:32 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/the-modern-amputation.html#comment-10650 This is an excellent piece to reflect on as Holy Week approaches. Thanks much! - Bill Patenaude Thu, 29 Mar 2012 13:48:38 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/the-modern-amputation.html#comment-10649 Smitty: Thank you for the kind words. I've written before that Dawkins and his fellows pride themselves on not believing in Mr. Apollo. Well, I don't believe in Mr. Apollo, either. I could only wish that he'd condescend actually to find out what Christians do believe. - Tony Esolen Thu, 29 Mar 2012 13:05:35 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/the-modern-amputation.html#comment-10645 Dear Brian A, Msgr. Charles Pope’s blog today has the title “Kindness can kill if love is unwilling to wound.” This line would seem to cover much of what you apparently have trouble understanding. The gospel message compels us Catholics to “take care of one another.” However, this has been turned on its head by the leftist liberal agenda and looks more like enabling other’s addictions rather than taking care of one another in the Catholic sense. When you talk about “appeal to human love”, I don’t know what exactly you mean, a woman just married herself, another married a warehouse and stranger and more perverted unions are taking place under the false banner of “love”. The love we strive for is divine love. We strive to love others and Christ loves us, not as our appetites and desires would dictate. Dostoyevsky said in Brothers Karamazov something like “love in real life is a terrible and awful thing when compared to the love of dreams.” If you mean to justify or legitimize homosexual relationships, that is a very unloving thing to do where tolerance is confused for love. You comment that “government needs to help instead of lording like the taliban” is very strange. We in the Catholic Church believe in the concept of subsidiarity and recognize the traditional family unit as the building blocks of civilization. When a govt. does things a family should do, that is a sign of an unhealthy society. The closest thing to the Taliban this country has ever seen is the Obama Administration that encourages all of us to see ourselves as “little allahs” while trying to force us to be genies in bottles. The environment? Let’s not get started on that. The leftist liberal mindset is untenable for many reasons and much ink has been spilled on the subject by Popes and scholars alike. The main problem with this mindset is that it does not square with reality. It drastically reduces the human to scientific unrealities. Please reread Professor Esole's excelent essay. Brian, I hope you find what you are looking for. Achilles - Achilles Thu, 29 Mar 2012 10:27:01 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/the-modern-amputation.html#comment-10637 Manfred: We were going to that Mass because on that particular day we had no better choice. Our own parish is splendid. I assure you that at our own parish, on Trinity Sunday, there is always a great celebration of the Holy Trinity, and we sing Trinitarian hymns. I am annoyed by liturgical stupidities, and since I teach poetry for a living I am acutely conscious of the sheer awfulness of most of what passes for hymn-writing these days. And yet Jesus deigns to be present at Masses with awful music, celebrated by liturgical blockheads. I try in such cases to keep my mind on that fact. That's not to excuse the stupidities or, far from it, to excuse catechetical treacheries... - Tony Esolen Thu, 29 Mar 2012 05:26:10 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/the-modern-amputation.html#comment-10636 I normally am among the critical commenters when your pieces appear Tony...which is why it's only fair to tell you that I think this piece actually hits the nail on the head..Good job!!!.no sweeping baseless generalizations, little polemics and wild mischaracterizations of those who disagree with you, no nostalgia for the lost world of classics ....just some solid analysis of the importance of the core truth of our faith. As I reflect on this, I wonder if the current problem of our society vis a vis God has much to do with a misunderstanding of who God really is...when a person says "I don't believe in God" maybe our response should not be "Damn...another bloody atheist, one of Dawkins' minions...." but rather, "Really....what God is it that you don't believe in?" How often will the answer be some non-Trinitarian, monotheistic christianoid caricature of the God of the Bible. In which case, we should say, "I don't believe in a God that's anything like that either..I Believe in Jesus of Nazareth; if we see him we've seen the Father!" In other words, maybe alot of secularism is not so much a rejection of CHristianity at all, but a rejection of a bastardized pop-CHristianity that elides the most central mystery of all--who GOd really is!!! - jsmitty Thu, 29 Mar 2012 05:19:31 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/the-modern-amputation.html#comment-10635 I smell a book title: America: Nation of Allahs - Jacob Thu, 29 Mar 2012 05:16:21 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/the-modern-amputation.html#comment-10633 How do you explain liberals who say that we must take care of one another? How do you explain liberals who appeal to human love? How do you explain liberals who say that government needs to lend a helping hand instead of lording over the populace like the Taliban? How do you explain liberals who say that we must preserve the environment for future generations? - Brian A. Cook Thu, 29 Mar 2012 04:31:37 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/the-modern-amputation.html#comment-10632 Fantastic essay! A little sad and scary too. But so much explanitory power. "We mistake the individual for the person, and we mistake the collective for the community." Not just an excellent line, but excellently unwrapped and clarified. You shine bright light on dark places and it is unsettling becuase it is so true. Pax et bonum! - Achilles Thu, 29 Mar 2012 04:05:03 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/the-modern-amputation.html#comment-10630 I just finished an article by Frederick Marks, Ph.D. titled Cafeteria Catholicism which ends one of the first paragraphs: "-an estimated eighty to ninety percent of those who call themselves Catholics are living in an objective state of mortal sin" What else has to be said? Realize that just about everyone you know, if they die unrepentant, will never see God. Dr. Esolen, you and your family were going to mass(sic) taking bets on whether one of the hymns would focus on the Trinity? Would you consider a traditional parish? Or bowling, in lieu of the infantile gibberish which passes for liturgy? - Manfred Thu, 29 Mar 2012 02:49:05 +0100