Comments for Howdy Partner at http://www.thecatholicthing.org , comment 1 to 22 out of 20 comments http://www.thecatholicthing.org Fri, 24 May 2013 20:56:14 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/howdy-partner.html#comment-12755 Dr. Smith! The theme of your article reminds me of the title of a Josef Pieper book: "Abuse of Language, Abuse of Power". Given that I have only read the Ignatius Press short-description on the novel, all I can vouch for about the book is from that very description: "One of the great Catholic philosophers of our day reflects on the way language has been abused so that, instead of being a means of communicating the truth and entering more deeply into it, and of the acquisition of wisdom, it is being used to control people and manipulate them to achieve practical ends." -- When we think through the historical themes of our terminology shift, one astute student can see a constant theme of "empowerment" behind these occurrences. Every radical philosophy turned political movement has sought it, through blunt, or more subtle tweeks. I think this sort of melds what Pieper contends and what you contend. - Jim B. Sun, 05 Aug 2012 17:52:13 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/howdy-partner.html#comment-12130 I don't have a partner/fiancee/live-in/lover/roommate. I confess I am a 'wife' and I possess a 'husband'. However. "Wife" conjures up a shrew with old fashioned curlers in her hair, wearing a bathrobe and slippers, cigarette dangling from the corner of her mouth, holding either a rolling pin or spatula. This creature is in thrall to "Husband", a balding specimen with ear hair and a beer gut, sitting in a shabby recliner drinking beer, watching Tha Game. - anon Sun, 24 Jun 2012 05:39:03 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/howdy-partner.html#comment-11606 I live in England, and the term "partner" is a trend that the media have promoted aggressively in order to equate the relationship between two people who simply live together as if married with the relationship between legitimate spouses. However, I have not shared the experience of your professor friend who has found the use of the word "husband" or "wife" to be viewed as rude or discriminatory. I do think it's a slippery slope, though, intended to devalue marriage. But this is all the more reason to use openly the words "husband" and "wife" as now, more than ever, the terms proclaim one’s exclusive commitment to another person. - L Brown Sat, 26 May 2012 00:15:41 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/howdy-partner.html#comment-11592 Thank you for your article. I think this is an issue we should be talking about. I like what you had to say, but I think you missed something important about the term "partner." I believe you're right and some people use partner so as to be ambiguous and non-discriminatory. However, there is another way people use it that you didn't address. For some people, the term partner has more meaning to them than simply husband and wife. I, in agreement with you, would have qualms with that, but it's important to acknowledge it. My first thought about why this is, is that some people see that those terms may refer to traditional male and female roles in a marriage and those represent an unequal relationship. As is pretty obvious, many feminists would have issue with the terms husband and wife for these reasons. The element that is at the core of what they are trying to do, is emphasize that the relationship they are describing is indeed captured well with the terms partner. For some of the people that use partner, it means more to them to call their significant other partner because in the most simple way that means someone with whom, they are in the relationship together, living their lives together working towards greater love. That is very powerful and I have a lot of respect for that. It is an attractive concept for many because in that sense, partner, one with whom you are in the pursuit of love and living life together, evokes something more personal and intimate than husband and wife in a world of broken relationships, a high divorce rate, imposed traditional marriage norms, and other things. I wont disagree with you, that we should maintain our usage of the words husband and wife because for us Catholics those words have very deep meaning and capture the essence of how God calls a man and a woman to be together, but I urge you to see the deeper meaning in the use of the world partner for some people that you failed to mention in your post. - Paul Fri, 25 May 2012 07:55:35 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/howdy-partner.html#comment-11526 Nick Hornby is a great example of this. In his book Fever Pitch, an autobiography through the lens of his passion for football, he constantly refers to his partner. This caused great confusion in the mind of the Portuguese translator who rendered it into the masculine "parceiro", basically turning him into a homosexual. Thanks for this article, I selected it for the Portuguese translationand it will be published tomorrow on www.actualidadereligiosa.blogspot.com - Filipe Tue, 22 May 2012 12:39:47 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/howdy-partner.html#comment-11512 I lived in England for two years recently, and I can attest that this indeed was the case, everyone used the term "partner" married or not. I used husband and wife, but I was American so they expected all sorts of oddness from me. - Maria33 Mon, 21 May 2012 14:19:48 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/howdy-partner.html#comment-11502 This is what happens when those Catholics who have an influence on culture turn into wimps--people who would rather appease and be a part of the secular party than stand up for God like men. When pagans take over you can expect all sorts of lunacy! (It seems quite silly to be surprised by it.) - Jacob Mon, 21 May 2012 04:20:29 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/howdy-partner.html#comment-11499 My HUSBAND is far more than the person that I share a house with. He is: - the father of my children - my friend - my business partner, and - an equal participant in the management of the household However, as my HUSBAND, he is also, thanks to the wedding ceremony, my KIN. He was, by that sacrament, made one with me. We were adopted into each other's family. Just as you can't divorce your sister, you truly can't divorce your husband or wife. That's what a Catholic marriage is. - LindaF Mon, 21 May 2012 02:26:03 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/howdy-partner.html#comment-11495 Excellent article! May I add another new "fashion", at least here in the upper southern states, amongst young people who are sharing a bed and often children without the benefit of matrimony? This is referring to the other as my "Fiance/Fiancee". This is not coupled with any plan for marriage, ring, date, or anything like that. It is a very pretty lie to avoid using the correct term of "someone I have sex with and share a trailer with and some kids, too, but I don't know if I'll stay or not." - Pattie, RN Sun, 20 May 2012 01:36:09 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/howdy-partner.html#comment-11491 This has been happening for years in New Zealand. When my husband and I first moved back from Australia (after an absence of 13 years), I didn't quite know what to think when various people asked about my "partner". Now that I've had time to get used to it, if anyone asks about my partner, I will preface what I'm about to say with "My husband ...". It's seriously annoying, and I too wrote a post about it on a previous blog of mine. - Lucia Maria Sat, 19 May 2012 18:57:49 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/howdy-partner.html#comment-11485 Dave: Thank you for your comment. Cdl Ratzinger forecast the Church would become "more a minority Church; she will live in small vital circles of really convinced believers who live the faith." (hat tip to Tom Bethell). Our FSSP parish is our "small vital circle". Louise: Thank you for your always "right-on" comments as well. - Manfred Sat, 19 May 2012 12:57:09 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/howdy-partner.html#comment-11484 - Agree with Curple Turnle: I've never heard this in England (visit many times for work), and my friend's English spouse agreed over lunch today. - Agree with Manfred: "spouse" is a good phrase to incorporate into our lexicon. I still use husband/wife for married couples. Spouse is a good descriptive and differentiated choice for the reality of gay couples who enter into some sort of permanent legal arrangement. - Agree with Tony: I have no need to speculate about what anyone does in their bedroom. - Walter Sat, 19 May 2012 12:12:26 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/howdy-partner.html#comment-11483 Two thoughts on your essay, Mr. Smith. 1. I thought surely you were going to suggest that the definitions of "husband" and "wife" might well evolve to mean the person of the same sex as the one speaking. If heterosexual people can only say "partner" and homosexual people say only "husband" and "wife", isn't that the likely outcome? 2. ' “In this revolt,” says Havel, “the greengrocer steps out of living within the lie. He rejects the ritual and breaks the rules of the game.' Which is exactly why I never use the word "gay" to refer to homosexual people. To do so is to follow their 'rules of the game", to participate in their lie, and to accept their terms of the debate--immediately conceding your ground. If truth is one's only weapon against tyranny, that truth must be expressed in truthful words--and I don't care WHAT the American Heritage Dictionary says on the subject. - Louise Sat, 19 May 2012 10:08:54 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/howdy-partner.html#comment-11482 Great article! That this will all end according to God's will is assured. It's the "HOW" I'm rather puzzled about and must admit ignorance. "For my ways are not your ways and my thoughts not your thoughts says the Lord," in Isaiah 55:8-9. Why marriage? The ultimate societal hot button has finally been pushed and this current President just pushed it. Like the little pebble now sent down the hill, the avalanche has begun and I have this strange feeling this President will rue the day he started the avalanche that will engulf him. Indulge me my friends to offer my explanation. One thing out of my Lutheran upbringing has always stuck with me when the Pastor of my church stated, "Marriage was God's idea, not man's idea." I'm sure any Catholic Priest would say something similar. The Pastor said this to me and other 13 year olds during a Sunday School class something akin to CCD. And so it follows that if marriage is not the idea of man, neither is it the idea of the Magna Carta, the Hammurabic Code OR the US Constitution. Those documents might mention it or allude to it but do not and never will be able to define or claim exclusivity to it. Thus, the actions to define marriage in accordance with these documents is simply to take away (or more aptly an attempt to take away) something God created, instituted and gave to us. This is of course consistent with Socialist, Marxist, Post-Modern thinking that man can become the solution i.e. a perfectible power like God." What this twisted logic and those who espouse this "new thinking" deny is that it is what got us into trouble with God in the first place. "You will not die the serpent told Eve, for God knows that when you eat of it, your eyes will be opened and you will be like God." So there is nothing new under the Sun contrary to those who stridently parrot the "conventional wisdom." After many years of thinking about marriage in light of emerging social pressure and changes, a thought came to me just a few years back that I would like to convey here. God gave us marriage to provide us some very very small finite idea of the love, joy, COMMITTMENT, and mystery of the Trinity. God is mostly mystery, indirectly parceling out to his children that which He knows our finite minds can comprehend. We are all made in His image but we are finite creatures of finite intellect and capacity. The fullness of the relationship, interplay and intimacy of the Trinity is not something we understand nor is God willing to fully share with us. Has any of you had a child come to you in their adolescence or young adulthood and posit the question to you that they don't understand what makes you and your spouse tick? What brought you together? What keeps you together? What makes you love one another so passionately? That's a mystery our children don't understand. My daughter once asked me that question and I told her that I pondered the same about my parents and I don't have a satisfying answer on that one either. I am here because of that marriage and she is here because of the marriage of myself and her mother. Beyond that, don't try to figure it out, the answers are really not her concern and she will realize the same when she gets married and has children. Marriage therefore, is the exclusive mystery only one man and one woman share unto themselves in the fullness of every dimension of love simply because that's how God designed us? Why? I don't know, I just accept it. Once again, God provides only the insight He chooses to reveal and no more. It is enough to know and be assured of where marriage originated and be aware of the ultimate consequences of those who wish to define it outside the parameters that God has set. There will be a reckoning on this one, when and how I do not know but like John Paul II, Poland, the Soviet Union, and the rest of the World, God has a way of getting the point across to us in ways well beyond our imagination. I take comfort in this and know that despite the current condition that marriage as we know it is under attack and for now the battle is being lost. We might lose the battle temporarily, but the war will be won for eternity. My thoughts. Yours? - Frank Sat, 19 May 2012 07:11:23 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/howdy-partner.html#comment-11481 I am in favor of the variety of language. Why can't terminology like "partner" exist side-by-side with the terminology of "husband" and "wife?" I prefer the nuance and variety of connotations possible with the variety of language. It also allows for preference: some people may be content with "partner" and not care for "husband" or "wife" or "spouse," and vice versa. Additionally, "partner" allows reference to a greater variety of social arrangements. - Scotty Ellis Sat, 19 May 2012 07:01:34 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/howdy-partner.html#comment-11480 There's another thing going on here, too. If a man says, "This is my girl friend, Tina," that means that he and Tina are seeing one another, and it does not necessarily mean more than that. It doesn't even mean, necessarily, that they are sharing the same bed. If he says, "This is my partner, Tina," that evidently does mean that they are sharing the same bed, but they might not be married. Frankly, I don't care to know that two unmarried people are sharing the same bed. The same applies in spades to two men. - Tony Esolen Sat, 19 May 2012 05:33:18 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/howdy-partner.html#comment-11479 Manfred: the Faith is alive wherever believers practice it, even if the numbers be few, even if the Church be beleagured. Have faith! The nightmare we are living may even get worse, but the gates of hell will not prevail. Spain fell to the Moors and eight hundred years later began a Catholic renewal that spread the Faith to the four corners. If it happened there, it can happen here, provided we have the Faith. "Greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world." - Dave Sat, 19 May 2012 04:59:03 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/howdy-partner.html#comment-11478 Great article! And great sense of humor too! It's amazing how awkward this "inclusiveness" is...and tiring too. Let us also not forget anxiety inducing: the anticipation of finally learning whether the partner is a he or a she. But of course, I am being ironic about anxiety--the best thing to do is not to submit to such silly social experiments that are thrust upon us. The best thing to do, of course, is to affirm reality, and not allow absurdity to suppress one's true identity, in one's relations with such linguistically exhausting men and woman--sorry, "partners." - Emina Melonic Sat, 19 May 2012 03:36:15 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/howdy-partner.html#comment-11477 I have noticed that, in France, mon époux (épouse) or spouse is increasingly used to describe what used to be referred to, officially at least, as a concubin(e) At least, in French, one is left in no doubt about the gender. In Scotland, we used to use "bidie-in" for those who shared an abode without benefit of matrimony. Curiously, for my parents' generation, (I am in my sixties) to refer to "my husband" or "my wife" was considered very infra dig; it was always "Mr X" or "Mrs X" or "the Doctor/Minister/Colonel" although friends would enquire after "your good lady." or "Your man." - Michael Paterson-Seymour Sat, 19 May 2012 03:03:24 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/howdy-partner.html#comment-11475 In coming times we may be forced to submerge sex, as in forms that require only "parent 1" and "parent 2". Ideas and distinctions drive policy. I say we must fight for "la difference". - Sue Sat, 19 May 2012 01:19:37 +0100