Comments for Against the Netherworld at http://www.thecatholicthing.org , comment 1 to 9 out of 9 comments http://www.thecatholicthing.org Sat, 25 May 2013 20:27:12 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/against-the-netherworld.html#comment-12054 "Leo XIII condemned Americanism 6 months after Cardinal Gibbons went to Rome to make a case for it" So true. There is something seriously wrong with "Americanism." It places "freedom" and "freedom of conscience" and "civil liberties" about obedience to God and His Church. "Religion has never been denied a place in the public square, but it needs reminding from time to time, that it doesn't own the public square." There is no freedom under God and reference for the dignity of each individual soul until and unless Jesus Christ, the Son of the Living God OWNS the public square. - Jeannon Kralj Wed, 20 Jun 2012 04:48:37 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/against-the-netherworld.html#comment-12050 What a farce. Leo XIII condemned Americanism 6 months after Cardinal Gibbons went to Rome to make a case for it. Now, Cardinal Smile is peddling "Religious Liberty" and Abraham Lincoln. Sigh - Amadan Wed, 20 Jun 2012 03:22:56 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/against-the-netherworld.html#comment-12044 Many significant facts are ignored herein. What is "non-negotiable", is the diversity of beliefs, opinions, perspectives & ideologies, in any democracy/republic. Religion has never been denied a place in the public square, but it needs reminding from time to time, that it doesn't own the public square. It will likely be generations before religious conservatives finally grasp the notion that freedom of religion doesn't involve the right to deny, diminish, or eliminate; the rights of others. - H. (Bart) Vincelette Tue, 19 Jun 2012 20:03:28 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/against-the-netherworld.html#comment-12027 Thank you, Dr. Miner for writing this excellent column and of igniting this thoughtful discussion. I'm sure that we are all grateful for Cdl Dolann's courage and pray for victory in this clear battle between good and evil. I have no way of knowing how aware Cdl Dolan is of the realities that Sue, JonS., Felix, and Grump mentioned. Down here in the trenches many of us see chaos in the ranks of what should be the church militant. Many of us have witnessed parishes in which those responsible for "faith formation" are themselves moral relativists to whom the expression non-negotiable is totally alien if not anathema. Perhaps this is just the time for a man with presence and personality like Cdl Dolan. But it is June and time is awastin'. - Thomas C. Coleman, jr. Mon, 18 Jun 2012 17:52:28 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/against-the-netherworld.html#comment-12022 I sincerely hope that Cardinal Dolan will provide the leadership that the Church and America need. However, I will be pessimistic until I see him doing more to turn the ocean liner of the culture of dissent in his diocese and the USCCB, e.g., enforcing the mandatum at Catholic colleges, excommunicating pro-abortion Catholic politicians, etc. As Sue has pointed out, the religious liberty issue does not exist in a vacuum. May Cardinal Dolan end up being remembered more like Saint Athanasius than like bishops who have unwisely chosen "accomodation with secular authority." May each of us do the will of God in these trying times. - Jon S. Mon, 18 Jun 2012 11:48:12 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/against-the-netherworld.html#comment-12021 Fulton Sheen would not have countenanced the moral fogginess of most of the documents issuing from the (non-canonical) USCCB. Sheen's humor was always alloyed with razor-sharp, incisive critique of the collectivist mentality, which is also the primary threat today. Some of the fogging I'm referring to are the issues of illegal immigration and also adoption services. If they cite adoption services as a religious freedom issue, why are they running away from it by closing down adoption services? Doesn't sound like much "courage disobey...unjust laws". As for immigration, I am sure there are oppressive laws against immigrants, but the erosion of rule of law and the corrosiveness of the welfare state are what is being promoted by illegal immigration. To bring immigration under the mantle of protection as "religious liberty" is disingenuous. One more item for concern is that the religious liberty issue is not somehow hijacked and turned around to grease the skids for Sharia law in America. If USCCB had a track record for ideological purity it would be one thing, but its "Faithful Citizenship" guide was almost a blueprint for the Obama election in 2008. Fortunately, the Catholic in the pew can safely ignore that which issues from the USCCB as it is not a canonical authority. One can only hope his bishop has the same discernment and ability to think, and act, for himself, as the brave underground clergy in China do. - Sue Mon, 18 Jun 2012 08:18:01 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/against-the-netherworld.html#comment-12019 I love Cardinal Dolan and fully support our Bishops' efforts on behalf of our religious liberty. However, I would change one line in this article: "Our bishops FINALLY have backbones". - John Hinshaw Mon, 18 Jun 2012 06:05:11 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/against-the-netherworld.html#comment-12017 The USCCB's fight against the HHS mandate is weak. This should not be reduced to merely a fight of religious liberty and conscience rights, but must also include a fight against the evils of abortion and contraception itself. It is the government's duty to promote and enforce as much as reasonably possible the Natural Law as explicitly mentioned in the Declaration of Independence. Contraceptives are a violation of Natural Law in that sexuality is primarily intended by Nature's God for procreation. Contraceptive devices used to be illegal in this country. Now that it is legalized at the very least the government should not be promoting or funding it. It is NOT Health Care, health care is to treat disease (a disorder in nature), fertility and pregnancy are not diseases. It does not even fulfill the Health Care law's own definition of "preventive services" which are treatments and services intended to prevent DISEASES. The US Bishops have been negligent in effectively teaching the faithful about the evils of contraceptives for over 40 years, this HHS mandate is a direct consequence of inadequate teaching from the pulpits, CCD classes, RCIA classes, and marriage preparation classes about this issue. It's time that the entire clergy wake up and do their jobs. - Felix Mon, 18 Jun 2012 05:23:43 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/against-the-netherworld.html#comment-12015 I watched a good portion of the USCCB conference in Atlanta and liked the way Dolan ran the show with both humor and grace. He looks and sounds like the kind of guy you could sit down and have some beer and pretzels with. When he was profiled on 60 Minutes awhile back he came across as a wee bit too jolly but still managed to get in some zingers. He reminds me somewhat of Bishop Sheen, who always enjoyed and could tell a good joke during his wonderful telecasts. I remember one where he deliberately cocked his zucchetto to the side to make a point about man's ability to laugh and elicited howls of laughter from the audience. I would imagine the Lord loves a good joke, too, since He made so many of us. - Grump Mon, 18 Jun 2012 03:40:51 +0100