Comments for Some Are More “Other” Than Others at http://www.thecatholicthing.org , comment 1 to 18 out of 18 comments http://www.thecatholicthing.org Wed, 19 Jun 2013 20:06:23 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/some-are-more-other-than-others.html#comment-12166 "Muslims believe that health insurance is “haraam”, or forbidden; because they liken the ambiguity and probability of insurance to gambling" Perceptive folks... - enness Tue, 26 Jun 2012 19:14:27 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/some-are-more-other-than-others.html#comment-12162 Please tell me you had the guts to confront this woman and didn't just decide to write a blog piece on what you should have said to her! Please do so....if you haven't that is! Enough charity...confront them! - Froilan Tue, 26 Jun 2012 05:27:06 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/some-are-more-other-than-others.html#comment-12151 From the Author: Gian, I take your point. There is certainly some truth in what you say. But then again, consider the example: the woman in question rejected the Catholic faith precisely because of its non-wishy-washy attitude toward contraception. Why then did she welcome so fulsomely a different religion whose attitude on the same issue is similarly non-wishy-washy? Something else is likely at work. Also, please understand, no 1000-word article will ever be "sufficient," nor did I intend that anyone should think it would be. Quite frankly, even a 1000-page book would never be "sufficient." Reality is far too complex. Such articles can do no more than point to a small slice of a larger, more complex reality. So again, I take your point, but by the same token, the statement "The arguments given in this article cannot be sufficient" will always apply to any article. The issue, I suggest, isn't whether the arguments are "sufficient" in the sense of all-encompassing, explaining all; the issue, rather, is whether the article has hit upon something true about the world. With regard to the comment by "anon" above that happily married couples "will plan their family, if any: one, two, or a dozen, using contraception together," I'm not exactly sure what to say. For starters, it's not exactly likely that a couple will have a dozen children using contraceptives. And planning not to have any children ("if any") is not exactly to plan a family; it's more like planning to avoid a family. As for "using contraception together," if what young women tell me is true, "using contraception" is usually something expected of women, not something the sex partners "do together." But either way, it's something expected by one of the other before there can be any coming together. Conjugal sex open to new life is something a couple can "do together." Contraception is something done TO the man or the woman in order to denature his or her bothersome fertility. The Church insists that the fertility of a man or a woman is not a disease, not something that needs to be "treated" with drugs or killed like a bacterial infection. To treat the perfectly natural fertility of one's spouse in this way is precisely to destroy the "togetherness," the unity, of the sexual act. As for the comment that "No loving mother looks at her little child and wishes her a life of poverty and hardship, eternally pregnant, knee deep in dirty diapers, for all her married life because the church says so," I'm not aware of any Church document that says "mothers should be eternally pregnant and knee-deep in dirty diapers for all their married lives." (Eternally pregnant? There's a basic biological problem there, for one.) But more seriously, no, the Church simply does not say anything like that. Quite the contrary. Pope John Paul II, for example, used to talk a lot about RESPONSIBLE parenthood. (He wrote a book entitled "Love and Responsibility.") Couples should make "free and responsible" decisions about the size of their families. The Catholic Church does NOT suggest that it is okay to have babies indiscriminately or irresponsibly. If one is choosing to have sex, however, then one should always be open to new life, since one is engaged in a fundamentally procreative act (one is "planting seed," after all). One can always choose not to have sex. Unless, of course, one "has to have it." In which case, the act is not exactly going to be "free" nor likely "responsible." And as for "unitive"---an act of selfless love uniting two people---not likely. - Randall B. Smith Mon, 25 Jun 2012 05:25:32 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/some-are-more-other-than-others.html#comment-12144 The arguments given in this article can not be sufficient. For British people, Islam is familiar (so familiarity has not bred contempt) and Islam is at least, as hard as Catholicism. The real difference is to do with wishy-washy attitude of Catholics clergy contrasted with strong convictions displayed by their Muslim counterparts. - Gian Mon, 25 Jun 2012 02:59:20 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/some-are-more-other-than-others.html#comment-12139 @anon. Interesting contribution. You might want to visit The National Catholic Reporter, America and Commonweal sites. They have back issues of their magazines going back fifty years with articles saying pretty much what you said here. Even Hans Keung, no friend of traditional Catholic teaching, admits that Humanae Vitae has the full force of an Ex Cathedra Statement. - Manfred Sun, 24 Jun 2012 14:17:18 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/some-are-more-other-than-others.html#comment-12138 David - you provided irrefutable logic that the Cstholic Church is not the Church founded by Jesus. BRILLIANT. So which of the 27,000 protestant denominstions should I join? - morrie Sun, 24 Jun 2012 12:23:19 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/some-are-more-other-than-others.html#comment-12137 David - the Catholic Church gave us the Bible. So you think quoting a few verses makes your point? Jesus tells us to eat his flesh and drink his blood (a commandment) to have eternal life. We have the Eucharist. Jesus commands his apostles to forgive sins. We have the Sacrament of Reconciliation. We have the Fullness of Faith. I could not imagine go through life with Jesus in His Word and sacraments. What did Jesus tell the disciple who had followed all the commandments? Go and sell all your belongings and follow me. What do Catholic priests, brothers, and nuns do? It is an easy yoke as Jesus gives us all the graces we need, but he tells us to pick up our cross daily and follow him. - morrie Sun, 24 Jun 2012 11:55:03 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/some-are-more-other-than-others.html#comment-12136 In the Catholic Church the coincidentia oppositorum is in full effect - it is a religion that is utterly exotic and utterly natural at the same time. - Jim J. McCrea Sun, 24 Jun 2012 09:52:13 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/some-are-more-other-than-others.html#comment-12134 Yet one hears reports of Roman Catholic clergy fathering children and even disposing of the children at birth. Lets not kid ourselves ~ ALL have sinned except for Jesus. Life is about Jesus who IS Life (John 14.6). Consider this contrast (quote taken from article above): "Catholicism is hard – it makes serious demands – and that’s never very popular." 1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. Now do you want a hard task master OR Jesus? Matthew 11 28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light. - David Severy Sun, 24 Jun 2012 08:38:46 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/some-are-more-other-than-others.html#comment-12133 There are several reasons why an individual could claim exemption, being a member of a religion that does not believe in insurance is one of them. Islam is one of those religions. Muslims believe that health insurance is “haraam”, or forbidden; because they liken the ambiguity and probability of insurance to gambling. This belief excludes them from any of the requirements, mandates, or penalties set forth in the bill. Other excluded groups include Amish, American Indians, and Christian Scientists." Easy Google search -- HHS exemptions for Islam was the search tag. - Dave Sun, 24 Jun 2012 08:38:44 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/some-are-more-other-than-others.html#comment-12132 I really enjoyed this article, Randall Smith. The Monty Python dialogue between husband and wife really captures it all. I know it may sound smug, but I have been in a couple of conversations about how something should be done (e.g., changing "spouses" to "partners" on a membership list) and I insist it be done my way. When asked why others should defer to me I respond "Because I have been given by God the Pearl of Great price." I was once asked what I presumed others had received and I responded "You have chosen the Biblical Mess of Pottage". Catholicism cannot be anything else. It does not "compete" with any other religion or philosophy. It alone is Divine. When Its adherents attempt to make It something else, disaster results. One need only read and study the last fifty years. This is quite appropriate on the 50th anniversary of the opening of the Second Vatican Council. - Manfred Sun, 24 Jun 2012 07:54:24 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/some-are-more-other-than-others.html#comment-12128 (sigh) Contraception is not reserved for only the hordes of promiscuous, sex-maddened, fornicating unwed sluts and the armies of men they service. It is entirely possible the round-eyed babe in the crib will grow up and be UNITED IN HOLY WEDLOCK, married glowing with virginity to decent husband material, and they will plan their family, if any: one, two, or a dozen, using contraception together. No loving mother looks at her little child and wishes her a life of poverty and hardship, eternally pregnant, knee deep in dirty diapers, for all her married life because the church says so. Decent people, respectable married or single fornicators, want to avoid becoming Duggars! - anon Sun, 24 Jun 2012 05:25:04 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/some-are-more-other-than-others.html#comment-12127 You obviously don't get how utterly sophisticated Monty Python peepee jokes are. Don't ask me to explain why BUT THEY ARE! Anyone who says otherwise is just bitter that they're not geniuses like the MP boys. ...Geniuses at making the now over 50 crowd giggle in delight that they've ruined the west with their utterly pathetic obsession with sex (the cheap humor they pretend is so sophisticated seems to be icing on the cake). - Jacob Sun, 24 Jun 2012 04:52:56 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/some-are-more-other-than-others.html#comment-12126 Two recent events: at dinner with a friend in a high-powered job he noted that the young women in his office, all of child-bearing age, don't want marriage and instead seek affairs with older, married men. There are multiple reasons for the preference, among which two figure largely: their own careerism and their earnings outstripping the earnings of the young men who are their cohorts. And with contraception widely available and no stigma attached to extramarital relations, the women think, as some men do, that you can have your cake and eat it too. But a coworker with long years in Government service, and firmly committed to the liberal cause, noted sadly that the policies of the last forty years really haven't worked: people aren't marrying and having families, people are committed to each other, and our society is fractured. What is the appeal of Islam for nominal Christians who reject Catholicism? I don't know if the studies have been done, but my suspicion is that there is a longing for law and order, a law and order that seems increasingly hard to find in our own societies, which have rejected their Judeo-Christian bases for existence, and which seems present, despite its severity, in Islam. That's just a guess, and I'd love to hear what others think. - Dave Sun, 24 Jun 2012 03:37:51 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/some-are-more-other-than-others.html#comment-12124 Prof. Smith raises an interesting side issue. Why hasn't Islamic America been roused by the HHS mandate? That word "other" has become accepted across the spectrum of American thought and I've often questioned it because I have just as often felt like the "other" in the workplace, the classroom, and sometimes within the Church. Demographically of course I am the Man Without a Culture: white, straight, male, native-born, conservative. Catholic too but I guess that 2000 year old trans-national NGO doesn't have the bottum for a genuine culture. I could claim inheritance to so-called "roots music" -- my mother and father were born and raised in Appalachia, as were their ancestors yea even unto the post-Revolutionary era. But here's how the "other" is exploited. In law school I had a colleague who peformed at bluegrass festivals. The music of "das volk" in that environment. His roots music was de-racinated. Stripped of faith, values, family, place, military heritage, huntiing, fishing, victuals ('vittles" as Jed Clampett would say)... You get the picture. I have asked why the compositions of one of my favorite lutists, English Catholic John Dowling, aren't "roots musick" as well. I always get the look. Dowling was born, lived, and died during the sames years as Shakespeare. That's a long time ago; especially for American activist academics and other "other" respecters who dismiss the Constitution because it's "over 100 years old." Of course what leftist and feminist writers have done with sex-selected abortion is monstrous by comparison. The "other" truly is the beneficiary of moral, political, and cultural blindness. - Graham Sun, 24 Jun 2012 02:51:01 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/some-are-more-other-than-others.html#comment-12122 Thank you, Professor Smith. Your column is an excellent update of Chesterton's "The Everlasting Man." - Jon S. Sun, 24 Jun 2012 02:23:29 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/some-are-more-other-than-others.html#comment-12121 "Rather than trying to convince everyone that Catholicism is not in any way “strange” or “different” or counter-cultural, maybe we should be tacking in the opposite direction: trying to convince everyone that Catholicism is the strangest, most utterly “different” thing there is . . . Your observation certainly applies to vocations. Bishops and vocation directors take notice- there is a Carmelite convent near Lincoln, Nebraska that has the Mass and all seven offices in Latin, full habits, a very formidable grill, the ancient rule, and is being INUNDATED with vocations. The interest is unending. There have been about thirty-five entrances in the past five years. There'll be another one tomorrow, and another on the 13th of July. These young women want authenticity above all, the real thing, the Carmelite order as reformed by St. Teresa. They do not want to be involved in an ongoing experiment- the labyrinth, enneagrams, the spirituality of resentment and rebellion. They want to be saints. They don't want to dress like or live like everyone else. We have to abandon- and soon- what has become the unstated, but over-riding guiding principle in much of Catholic life: The Supreme Importance of Fitting In. I can well imagine, for example, the discussion that takes place in selecting bishops: Yes, yes, your eminence, I agree that Father X is a very holy and learned man, powerful in word and work, but . . .can he talk baseball? Can he come off as a regular guy at some level? Can he fit in? Similarly, it is very important for the powers that govern Notre Dame that it ape the Ivy League, lest we be laughed at, whereas it would have come to real glory and influence by being the most Catholic university possible. We Catholics have worked so hard to be accepted in this country, and God help us, we have become very like everyone else. But it is a firm principle of the spiritual life: seek applause and you will get disgrace. And we have had a bellyful. - Lee Gilbert Sat, 23 Jun 2012 21:12:31 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/some-are-more-other-than-others.html#comment-12120 Yes, that dialogue from the Monty Python film pretty much encapsulates what I've heard from a lot of people who aren't Catholic. As regards the strangnest of Catholicism - that's a large part of what attracted me to the Church and caused me to study it. The Church's "stick-in-the-mud" stance in the world, or in other words, the immovability of this Pillar of Truth in the world's mire, is why I eventually converted. Glory to God! - Randall Sat, 23 Jun 2012 20:14:30 +0100