Comments for The Cardinal Prays at http://www.thecatholicthing.org , comment 1 to 27 out of 20 comments http://www.thecatholicthing.org Fri, 24 May 2013 03:26:32 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/the-cardinal-prays.html#comment-13454 Religious clergy at a political convention is like an oxymoron: religion and free government are direct opposites. Religion has its rules that do not necessarily apply to our modern and diversified public. People in politics have their rules and they should be guided by their good conscience and by the will of their constituents, not by a religion or a Corporation. - John Rapach Wed, 19 Sep 2012 11:55:14 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/the-cardinal-prays.html#comment-13281 Again, it is down to "the lesser of two evils". - Frankly Mon, 03 Sep 2012 09:06:16 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/the-cardinal-prays.html#comment-13278 "...after the year 2000, again according to the Secuirty and Exchange Commission document, when he as supposed to be pro-life...." One might ask whose media-churning told you he was "supposed to be prolife". As Romney himself said recently, "My position has been clear throughout this campaign," Romney said. "I'm in favor of abortion being legal in the case of rape and incest, and the health and life of the mother." Health of the mother? Indeed. And furthermore Mitt says abortion is out of his hands: "Recognize this is the decision that will be made by the Supreme Court," he said. "The Democrats try and make this a political issue every four years, but this is a matter in the courts. It's been settled for some time in the courts." Classic Bain-and-switch maneuvering of the incrementalists. Romney never was prolife, and what has suffered is the notion of inalienable right to life. It should *always* have been abolish abortion, now. - Sue Mon, 03 Sep 2012 06:21:30 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/the-cardinal-prays.html#comment-13271 What troubles me as a pro-lifer is the no one has said anything about the fact that while Mitt Romney managed the Bain Company, according to documents from the Securities and Exchange Commission, Romney was involved with Bain's investment in Stericycle, a medical waste firm involved in the disposing of aborted fetuses for abortion clinics and other medical facilities. This was not back in the 1980s before he converted from being pro-choice, but in the late 1990's and after the year 2000, again according to the Secuirty and Exchange Commission document, when he as supposed to be pro-life. - Patrick Samson Mon, 03 Sep 2012 03:55:19 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/the-cardinal-prays.html#comment-13265 If the Church leaders spent as much time on their personal spiritual lives as they do on "schmoozing," the Church might be in better shape. - KB Sun, 02 Sep 2012 16:56:59 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/the-cardinal-prays.html#comment-13254 Hi Maggie just to pick up your other point about the bishops 'speaking in the wrong century'. This sounds rather like Card. Martini who forgot that Christ's truth is timeless. The issue really is being in conversation with the public square using this timeless truth. He chose celebrity which means voicing the zeitgeist over speaking the truth no matter what isolation that brings. - Fr. Bramwell Sun, 02 Sep 2012 06:26:03 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/the-cardinal-prays.html#comment-13253 Transition points are tough to identify and to bear. The close identification between the Church and a political party is coming to an end ultimately because the Church is about so much more than politics. The Conference staff's critique of the Ryan budget demonstrates the problem. The Conference staff has not made the transition yet. - Fr. Bramwell Sun, 02 Sep 2012 05:27:45 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/the-cardinal-prays.html#comment-13252 The truly courageous thing to do, and the most constructive, would have been to call out the Republicans on their lack of compassion and their disdain for the poor. By Catholic standards, the Ryan Plan is an abomination. Dolan blew it. - Connie Boyd Sun, 02 Sep 2012 05:09:15 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/the-cardinal-prays.html#comment-13248 Dear Fr. Bramwell, You have captured exactly the core and the substance of the matter. I have often been uneasy about our bishops when they speak, feeling that there was something out of tune, something missing, something not quite sound, that I could not put my finger on. You have revealed what is missing: they are speaking in the wrong century. Who knew that the explanation would be so simple. Thank you. - Maggie Louise Sat, 01 Sep 2012 17:44:25 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/the-cardinal-prays.html#comment-13247 As a Prot. pastor, I welcomed the Dolan prayer. The RNC was polite and ...actually prayed. Dolan will not find the same response at the DNC. Oh, they will bow but the fact is , the DNC invited him because the Dems have gone overboard on blasting Christian freedom of religious speech and thought on abortion, in hospitals, nursing homes, schools et al. And not just for Catholics. Obama and the DNC knew they had to get Dolan or lose many more Catholic votes. It is a ploy my friends and Catholic voters and the Church should realize it. - Glenn Koons Sat, 01 Sep 2012 15:36:54 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/the-cardinal-prays.html#comment-13246 I thought Cardinal Dolan's benediction was strong and clearly welcomed at the Republican Convention, but then the Republican party isn't waging war against Relgious Freedom and the 1st Amendment. My question is when he goes to the Democratic convention, the convention of a President and a party waging war on the Catholic Church, if he will rebuke Obama for waging that war against both the Catholic Church and Christianity. Will he speak truth to power and speak out directly at the convention against the President's dispicable plan to violate the First Amendment and force the Catholic Church and its institutions to violate their most fundamental beliefs, and their covenant with God? - valwayne Sat, 01 Sep 2012 15:27:00 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/the-cardinal-prays.html#comment-13245 MRD, The utility will be apparent when boos emerge from those sad souls attending the DNC at the moment Cardinal Dolan references "those yet to be born, " which he will. - Mike Petrik Sat, 01 Sep 2012 13:56:56 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/the-cardinal-prays.html#comment-13243 I would point out that the Cardinal did not avoid the DNC, they tried to avoid him. Only public pressure caused them to allow him in. I pray that he will use the same prayer, word for word. Though I am not a Catholic these words speak for all of us as serious disciples of Christ. - Dr.Todd Sat, 01 Sep 2012 08:32:18 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/the-cardinal-prays.html#comment-13242 It is well and fitting that a Catholic lead prayers in both national conventions; Catholics are the largest religious tradition in America. It is fitting that he, "speak truth to power", as all are sinners. The fact that he may shortly be in court against the Democratic leader is no reason to avoid his convention. Jesus spoke to sinners. The key decision is how to confront evil, hate the sin, while loving the sinner. In North Carolina, Cardinal Dolan will be a moral giant in the midst of pigmies. He should stick to simple basics: If you cheat, lie, and steal, then you will go to hell. - R. L. Hails Sr. P. E. Sat, 01 Sep 2012 07:35:02 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/the-cardinal-prays.html#comment-13241 1) If you think anyone but the "professional Catholic" crowd heard Cardinal Dolan's oblique reference to "life" as saying something relevant to the fact that the Democrats are by an large promoters of abortion on demand and the Republican's are in general pro-life you are clearly delusional. I would remind everyone that in the 112th Congress, of the 53 Democrats in the Senate ( 51 Democrats and 2 Independents who caucus with them) 51 had a O% voting record according to the the National Right to Life Committee. That means that they never voted with NRLC once. The 2 most "Pro-life" Democrat Senators had a record of agreeing with the NRLC 20% of the time! The Republicans had an average voting record of 93%, meaning the 47 Republicans voted with the NRLC on average 93% of the time. In fact most had 100% voting records. The most pro-choice Republican voted with the NRLC 66% of the time. That means the pro-life movement is better off with the worst RINO Republican versus the very best "pro-life" Democrat. (Indeed there are no prolife Democrats, only those claiming to be, at least in the US Senate. Given that abortion is an unspeakable crime, it should simply rule out any serious Catholic from voting for a Democrat. I suppose some will say what about the poor? To which I answer perhaps if you actually care about the poor you would take the trouble to inquire as to the result of the policies your Democrat friends have foisted on them. For Example prior to the Johnson Administrations "war on poverty" The rate of poverty was actually rapidly declining, this decline ceased following 1965 and the Great society programs. The evidence is clear, these programs actually did harm ( they obliterated a decline in the poverty rate.) What helps the poor the most are policies which foster economic growth and that keep the family intact. Cities like Detroit have had one party liberal Democratic rule for decades and have been decimated. It might be nice for those folks concerned about the poor to do more than say they are concerned. They resemble an incompetent physician who says he cares about his patients but continues to administer a drug that has been shown to be harmful. Given all this it is hard for me to see any utility for Cardinal Dolan treating the Democrats and the Republicans like to even choices with fairly innocuous Benedictions at both the RNC and DNC abortion fest.The Democrats as the DNC will make clear are the party of unlimited abortion on demand, abortion of course being an unspeakable crime and as stated by Blessed John Paul II a particularly foul form of murder. ( As noted in Evangelium Vitae). In addition the Democrats do not express a "preferential option for the poor" because they favor policies that further crush and ruin the poor. The Republicans while very imperfect, for the most part will limit abortion and the evidence suggests in general favor policies that will do a bit to alleviate the plight to the poor. If you are not deliberately deluding yourself this choice is simple. - MRD Sat, 01 Sep 2012 06:58:52 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/the-cardinal-prays.html#comment-13240 There is nothing in Cardinal Dolan's prayer that at one time in America would have been considered controversial. The movement--more like a seismic shift--has clearly been in the Democratic party. What would be partisan on the Cardinal's part would be to soften the prayer to the DNC's sensibilities, and I doubt he will do that. The interesting thing will be how it is received by the DNC. Think about it: how long has it been since the Democrats allowed a pro-life speaker on their podium? What will their reaction be? - Francis Sat, 01 Sep 2012 06:55:52 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/the-cardinal-prays.html#comment-13239 The Cardinal stated: “the only just government is the government that serves its citizens rather than itself.” I agree wholeheartedly. But when it comes to the immigration issue, let's remember that when anyone comes to the US illegally, they are not citizens. They need to be treated humanely and in charity but like anyone else who commits an illegal act. We recognize our obligation to care for those imprisoned with charity but the Church does not say that justice has no place and all prisoners ought to be let out of jail. One caveat: I am addressing an issue of justice and illegal acts and I am NOT suggesting that illegal immigrants should be sent to jail. But they are NOT citizens (even though Obama wants to give them the right to vote). - Deacon Ed Peitler Sat, 01 Sep 2012 06:51:32 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/the-cardinal-prays.html#comment-13238 I think that Cardinal Dolan speaks to a nostalgic group of Catholics who want a back-slapping bishop who is saying 'can't we all just get along?'. The prayer is nice but really once the Bishop's Conference came out with a complete denial of Ryan's Bill because it does not pass the 'moral test', things have drastically changed. Did Dolan even have to be at the RNC convention? Dolan seems to be a figure from the past when most of the Church was Democrat and bishops did not worry. Issue a statement of teaching now and again, teaching that would be ignored by the way and let public life flow on. I wish that bishops would find the new identity that they need in this new time that faces us and that they would do it a lot faster. - Fr. Bramwell Sat, 01 Sep 2012 06:20:44 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/the-cardinal-prays.html#comment-13237 I wonder if we'll ever have cardinals who inspire young men and women. American Catholicism is near collapse because it's an old guys and gals' club. The old foggies don't even seem to try to bring young people in because that would threaten the integrity of their social club, I mean the Catholic Church in America. These articles often seem so boring to me because they're well written itineraries of all the old people this or that high ranking member of the Church (and fellow old guy) glad handed that day. Of course the last thing I mean about getting in touch with the younger generation is guitar mass, but when Christendom was thriving in Europe and the Americas there were groups of monks and groups of knights--social groups which catered to all the diverse and varied personality type sets. In "the West" now, there seems to be, with a few notable but tiny exceptions, just one formidable force in the Church: old people, who love to talk about themselves but don't seem to know much about that pesky Catholicism that's always infringing on their social club. I know that new Christian groups have for the most part been outlawed in this country (and, as I said, most the old foggies are too tired and self consumed to think about them anyway), but we can dream of reestablishing them someday, perhaps in Africa...or continue on with this pathetic version of Catholicism where old people babble on about nothing as if it pleases Christ. "You allowed your culture to fall to the forces of Satan, my son, but you spoke at the conventions of BOTH major political parties in the United States in 2012 and so I shall forget about the least among you because I'm really impressed by big league politics." --old foggie American Catholic fake version of Christ - Jacob R Sat, 01 Sep 2012 05:49:01 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/the-cardinal-prays.html#comment-13236 There is a context to everything we do especially public prayer. Too often we receive one message one week then another the next. And in this case the messages conflict; they are incoherent. Words have meaning because words have histories. This includes prayer. Several years ago I attended a Mass of Lebanese Catholics here in South East Michigan. There is a dominant mood to this particular liturgy which reflects the history of Catholics in this region. The words, the prayers are suffused with a sense of insecurity, of being surrounded by a hostile culture. The prayers express a desire for the security of God's love in a world where Lebanese Catholics have felt under seige. Fr. George Rutler -- like his eminence, a New York priest --has written recently of a new Post-comfortable Christianity in America. That is where we are. But that is a reality the Bishops'Conference seems reluctant to acknowledge. The Mass is more than a memorial to Christ's Sacrifice. It is more than nostalgia for a Love we will never truly understand in this life. Prayer should not be a form of nostalgia expressing a wish for things as they once were in this country. Things have changed and it is past time for the successors to the Apostles to recognize this. - Graham Combs Sat, 01 Sep 2012 04:36:48 +0100