Comments for The Catholic Vote and Mr. Romney at http://www.thecatholicthing.org , comment 1 to 65 out of 20 comments http://www.thecatholicthing.org Thu, 23 May 2013 09:49:49 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/the-catholic-vote-and-mr-romney.html#comment-14337 First off I like your blog even though I am not Catholic. I was Catholic up to the age of 18, I'm now 48. It don't surprise me at all about Catholics voting for Obama. The Catholics I know are very secular and care less about abortion. Their greatest loyalty is to their union and who will help their wallet. They are not nominal Catholics either, but Mass every Sunday Catholics. - Jason Nota Mon, 12 Nov 2012 05:42:22 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/the-catholic-vote-and-mr-romney.html#comment-13667 @Brad Miner: You say "@ Riki, Luci, et al.: We're not electing a high priest. P.S. The Duggars aren't Mormon." Just a minor correction: Romney is a high priest of the Order of Melchizedek,according to Mormon hierarchical arrangements, and also served as a Bishop. But he'll take the oath on the Bible, and probably do a much better job. - Howard Kainz Sat, 29 Sep 2012 19:22:36 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/the-catholic-vote-and-mr-romney.html#comment-13660 I don't believe Mitt Romney's 2004 pro-life "conversion" was sincere. I believe that it was politically motivated and calculated. It's not that I hate the man or hate members of the Mormon cult, it is just that I am inherently suspicious of politicians to begin with, especially ones that flip-flop as often as Mitt Romney does. I find it very hard to believe that after spending most of his political career being "personally pro-choice" (and doing such a good job publicly defending "pro-choice") that he suddenly became aware of the "science of life" only in 2004. That's the type of ignorance that strikes me as either grossly incompetent (considering the office he is running for now) or politically motivated. And while he may genuinely not have been educated on the issue up until 2004, I find that hard to believe given his public statements on abortion up until 2004. I find his "conversion" even harder to swallow given his public actions since 2004, one of the most glaring examples of which was the 2005 flip-flop on the question of whether or not Catholic Hospitals in Massachusetts should be forced to administer the Morning After Pill. This happened AFTER Romney's conversion, it demonstrated his lack of courage and trustworthiness on the issue, and it prefigured the current problems we face with Obamacare I think C.J. Doyle, the executive director of the Catholic Action League of Massachusetts, summed up Romney best when he said, "the initial injury to Catholic religious freedom came not from the Obama Administration but from the Romney administration...President Obama's plan certainly constitutes an assault on the constitutional rights of Catholics, but I'm not sure Governor Romney is in a position to assert that, given his own very mixed record on this." When you look at voting records rather than campaign rhetoric, you quickly come to the conclusion that neither Obama nor Romney is pro-life. Both support a number of intrinsic evils (abortion, homosexual marriage, unjust "preemptive" war, corporate greed, etc.). As a practicing Catholic I don't feel comfortable voting for either of them. Oh, I know a case can be made using "proportionate reasons" and the "lesser of two evils" but there is something not quite right about voting for candidate A because he\she will murder less babies than candidate B. It seems like something Machiavelli would teach rather than something Jesus would subscribe to. - Milton Sat, 29 Sep 2012 06:45:16 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/the-catholic-vote-and-mr-romney.html#comment-13642 Thought Duggars were Mormon? Oh. saw another family just like them with just as many kids which was profiled on a morning show in recent years. I dont want to elect a high priest but Gerald Ford and Harry Truman and Ronald Reagan were alot more genuine than what we get now. And Reagan was an actor but these politicians now have so much public relations ploys and make up they take the cake! Riki I am so sorry for the persecution you and your family have suffered both for your Jewish heritage and for being Messianic Christians. Hardest too is when the innocent children are hurt by it. Jesus and the Apostles were the first to experience being persecuted for being both Jewish and Christian which puts you in the best company. candiddate- but Pope John Paul II said inone encyclical that when forced to choose like that The Catholic must opt for the lesser of the two and that seems quite obvious brcause the Govt should not really be in the charity business-- individual people, charities and Catholic and Missions etc should be because Jesus said "The poor will always be with us" and we know the Romans at that time were not playing Mother Theresa so I did not say I wanted to choose to vote for either candidate. I want a new set of candidates. I do not want to be likened to Pontius Pilate or the angry mob but that is where they sort of leave voters this year- to be given a very bad choice to make. - Luci Fri, 28 Sep 2012 02:47:15 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/the-catholic-vote-and-mr-romney.html#comment-13637 Mr. Levy you should watch "Gog-U-Magog" at YouTube. I've watched it already 20 times or more. Every Israel lover should watch it. This is the English version, there is also a Hebrew version of it. It's a must see. Rav Kin from L.A. gives commentary to it in the end. I wish you and your family a happy, blessed and very spiritual Sukkoth starting Sunday eve. - Riki Thu, 27 Sep 2012 16:57:46 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/the-catholic-vote-and-mr-romney.html#comment-13636 Riki, I am very sorry to hear of your persecution. We pray for the safety of Israel. - Mr. Levy Thu, 27 Sep 2012 16:04:32 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/the-catholic-vote-and-mr-romney.html#comment-13633 Numbers and their Biblical meaning : the number 44 in the Bible stands for "Judgment of the World". Lo and behold obama is the 44th president. - Riki Thu, 27 Sep 2012 14:20:57 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/the-catholic-vote-and-mr-romney.html#comment-13631 כתיבה וחתימה טובה ושנה טובה Mr. Levy I hope you had a great fast day yesterday at "YOM KIPPUR" We at home observe both the Jewish and the Christians Holy Days. BTW my husband fought in the" 6 Day war", in the "Yom Kippur War" in the" Lebanon War" in which he was shot but survived baruch HaShem. KOL TOV . - Riki Thu, 27 Sep 2012 13:32:22 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/the-catholic-vote-and-mr-romney.html#comment-13630 Mr. Levy, I am a Messianic Jew, my name is Rivka, my husband Shmuel is a Messianic Jew. We lived in Jerusalem and were persecuted horrendously almost murdered by jews and non jews. I love and am proud of my jewish origin. We lived then in Belgium and the persecution continued also for our kids in the schools. The most support and understanding came form the side of the Jews i.e. Chief Rabbi Medalie who in the meantime is with the Lord. I took even care of him as a nurse when he was in the hospital. The jewish patients were always mine. Well let's hope that Rav 'Itschak Kaduri was right. (btw the persecution continues for us even in the USA) Rivka " 'Israel chai" !!!!!!!! - Riki Thu, 27 Sep 2012 13:01:57 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/the-catholic-vote-and-mr-romney.html#comment-13629 @ Riki, Luci, et al.: We're not electing a high priest. P.S. The Duggars aren't Mormon. - Brad Miner Thu, 27 Sep 2012 12:44:57 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/the-catholic-vote-and-mr-romney.html#comment-13628 NO LUCI there is no such thing as the lesser evil. EVIL IS EVIL. You are acting as a Pontius Pilate. Why didn't we open are mouths and let the GOP know we the people don't agree withe their choices !!!!!! - Riki Thu, 27 Sep 2012 12:32:27 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/the-catholic-vote-and-mr-romney.html#comment-13627 Riki, I strongly dislike Romney, too, but because he is fundamentally a progressive without the knowledge or courage to promote and defend conservatism. It's too bad that you base your opposition on an over-zealously critical view of Mormonism. Tell me, do you think that Arianism was also a "satanic religion" because its many adherents over the course of centuries did not believe Jesus was the son of G-d, although they otherwise accepted the New Testament? I shudder to think what your view of Jews might be, since we don't even acknowledge Jesus as a prophet, much less as a divine being. - Mr. Levy Thu, 27 Sep 2012 11:58:14 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/the-catholic-vote-and-mr-romney.html#comment-13625 Luci, many of my co-workers are mormon, once you get one mormon in many more follow and they all strive for the higher positions and many get them because of the ones above them are also mormons, they protect each other really well. One day i was asking : how come I never see mormons wearing a Cross. The answer was : O no because this reminds us of his defeat !!! Well duh, what don't you understand about the savior. They always try to convert you to mormonism. I got the books handed over, I took them and read them because I want to know what's in their minds. I throw the books in the trash after reading, what a satanic religion. Joseph Smith by the way was a 33-rd degree freemason. That's why they have those strange secret rituals in their temples. BTW did you see Mrs Romney on the Jay Leno show yesterday I think (I watched the clip on Yahoo) she was dressed in a black leather outfit and miniskirt and high needle heels shoes and no panty hoses. She wanted to prove that mormons are not so called near sighted. Sorry but in our days of age she should show the respect of being a woman by being dressed deftly and NOT provocative. I can only say : we deserve the leaders for what we are. A people far away from God and it shows in everything, so we will reap what we sow. We are not the judges, the Lord will judge us on how we are so lax. God built the House on the rock of PETER, all the rest is APOSTATE. - Riki Thu, 27 Sep 2012 10:40:11 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/the-catholic-vote-and-mr-romney.html#comment-13624 Yes Riki I agree there is no great solution.. but the Presidential election and all elections( except maybe when spoiler Ross Perot ran back in 90's in 3 way race) are down to always pitting two faulted individuals against each other so that we must choose but we all want choice number 3!! Wish we could forfeit this 2012 election with these candidates and ask for a "Mis- election" like a Mis-trial in court! We want a Do-Over!Recall when a chimpanzee was running against Reagan for a time! Maybe we can get him back. Don't know a whole lot really about Joseph Smith and his founding of the, perhaps to some, a psuedo- Christian faith of Mormonism, but have seen a very evangelical and biblical service broadcast once from BYU in Utah- it looked pretty Christian by all accounts-so much so I mistook it for an evangelical broadcast . But I guess just as we Catholics are so fractured now in following magisterium and our established doctrines.. and our "beliefs" are now so varied- then, so are the Mormons for sure- and who really knows what they as individuals believe? Romney's life and wife and his family life and work record and service seem to speak volumes though that we can examine and now even his taxes finally- we do know alot about him from early on(Trump is happy that!) and alot about his rather famous father too -he didn't have to dream about him alot as-Romney appears to have been blessed with a very involved Dad who was also wealthy. Not a fan really either way but just find that kind of reassuring in some way but what is it worth? Donnie Osmond and Mitt Romney and the Duggars and say, some polygamus fool in the Northwest, are not all the same in their Mormon beliefs, I am sure. Surely there are some true Christians among the Mormons as among any denomination. Some of that listing of Mormon's myriad of odd beliefs and practices or "doctrines"sound like as weird a mixture of Unitarianism "beliefs" and Jehovah Witness "theology" or any other fringe group that the Catholic church might deem cultish. But mind you many evangelicals and fundamentalists consider Catholicism a "cult" too! And yet, most of them actually are also unKnowingly using our LECTIONARY schedule of Scripture - correlated and compiled to the Liturgical year by Catholic scholars! Go figure! Thank the Lord we are not judging hearts just casting a ballot. - Luci Thu, 27 Sep 2012 09:59:23 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/the-catholic-vote-and-mr-romney.html#comment-13622 Having to choose between 2 evils still makes it an evil. Mormons are not christians, if you believe you become a god after your dead and will live on a planet especially for you and your family, if you believe that Jesus was the brother of lucifer, if you believe that God the Father had intercourse to produce Jesus, you are far from being a christians. Mormonism is a satanic religion. There is no good candidate to choose for. May God help us !!! - Riki Thu, 27 Sep 2012 08:27:06 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/the-catholic-vote-and-mr-romney.html#comment-13620 Thank God for great minds like Alice Von Hildebrand and for those who still remember the 1930's prewar Germany and WWII because it looks spiritually and eerily similar here and it isnt so much a partisan thing it is much deeper than that- it is a soul thing- on a case by case basis. But we as Catholic voters have to vote for the lesser evil- is that so very hard to discern here when the Dems and Libs had to actually take a historic vote to see if God could be allowed in any way to be part of the Dem Convention? And God ( as Nietzche smiles!) was actually voted DOWN? The preacher Jonathon Edwards with his Sinners In The Hands Of an Angry God and the piercing prophetic voice of truth Venerable Fulton Sheen where are you now??? The smoke had enterd the church long ago Pope Paul said- it is at dangerous levels now choking out even the faithful. - Luci Thu, 27 Sep 2012 08:08:55 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/the-catholic-vote-and-mr-romney.html#comment-13615 SJM, Great article by Alice von H. Her paragraph cited above, however, encompasses BOTH Obama and Romney unfortunately. Abortion - rape/incest at the very least, approved by Romney - check. Homosexuality - look at Mass Resistance's take on Mitt Romney - check. Euthanasia - google "Haleigh Poutre" for a locally grown victim of Romney. Many other pieces of evidence can be cited. Not to mention the fact that these vices are all tidily wrapped together as dreams from Obamacare's father (Romney designed the system that will entrench and embed these vices in our society) - check. Professor Arkes, However obtuse I may be, analogizing our situation now to German Catholics in 1932 is not the same thing as "equating Romney to Hitler". If you look at the real force behind Hitler's puppet ascendency - he was able to gain traction because people were afraid of Communism, and they ignored the other warning signs they should have been paying attention to. I am not saying Romney's Hitler, but he is being influenced by the same syndicate, and we should pay attention to his warning signs. It could be that he's just being placed as a fake opposition clown like McMarshmallow was in 2008 (note Romney's recent claim that "at least Obama never raised taxes" for example), so I'm certainly not claiming an equation, or anywhere-near-complete analogy, with the situation in Germany. I will tell you what "obtuse" is. Failing to smack down abortion in 1972. Repeating that mistake every year, even feeding the mistake with "rape/incest" exceptions and the like. Crowning it off with (as the USCCB (and your Saint Doerflinger) did), midwifing the birth of Obamacare by granting the Stupak "get out of hell free" amendment for Congressman to pretend they were prolife and still vote for Obamacare. That's beyond obtuse - putting that Stupak figleaf on Obamacare was the (pseudo)Catholic version of taqqiya. About the economy and life issues: The child born (or kicked) out-of-wedlock becomes the vassal of the state - it's as simple as that. Life issues are at the heart of economy (a word that derives from the Greek for "household") - Sue Thu, 27 Sep 2012 06:50:06 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/the-catholic-vote-and-mr-romney.html#comment-13613 A key article which addresses many of the key current issues is by Alice von Hildebrand entitled "Plea to Confused Catholics". She wrote it after having seen EWTN's Raymond Arroyo program "The World Over" where he interviewed Dr. Stephen Schneck, an associate professor at Catholic University of America and co-chair of "Catholics" for Obama. One of her paragraphs which was particularly pertinent is: "Let me repeat: there is a hierarchy of truths, and there is a hierarchy of moral obligations. All those who intend to vote for a president who clearly justifies not only abortion, but homo sexuality, same sex marriages and self-assisted suicide in the name of "social concerns" are gravely "sinning" against this hierarchy established by God Himself. We SHOULD be "socially concerned", but such concerns are legitimate only to the extent that they respect the natural law. Moreover, they should never "allow" us to violate a moral law with an absolute veto. I am not allowed to kill one person in order to save another person's life." - SJM Thu, 27 Sep 2012 04:46:21 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/the-catholic-vote-and-mr-romney.html#comment-13610 There are three recent articles that might help shed some light on the issues above. 1. At Matthew Warner's blog, at the National Catholic Register, entitled, "What So Many Catholics Miss About Solidarity and Subsidiarity", there is an excellent video that analyzes Paul Ryan's policies vis-a-vis Catholic Social Teaching. 2. A couple of days ago, Romney announced a "Catholics for Romney Coalition", with highly respected Catholic leaders around the country who represent a wide variety of backgrounds and expertise. Romney and Ryan will have lots of help, with checks and balances, from this group. One thing that is imperative is for Romney to be candid about where we are as a country, and the cause and effect of current policies. He needs to spell out, for the American people, what can be done and how. 3. Archbishop Gomez of Los Angeles, in a recent article (which is the first in a series) called, "Faith Should Guide Catholic Voters", addresses Catholic Social Teaching in light of making sound decisions this Fall. In some ways, the angst that exists among Catholics in so many blogs these days, is not an all bad thing. I think that many Catholics will be hearing what the Church really teaches about social teaching, including "life" issues", for the first time. We are living in tenuous times where our religious freedom is at stake, along with a "culture of death" direction that has led, and will continue to lead, to significant negative consequences. We really need to hope and pray that the Holy Spirit will guide us in the upcoming election - not only for our sake but that of our children and grandchildren - and the souls of us all! - Sherry M. Thu, 27 Sep 2012 04:28:53 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/the-catholic-vote-and-mr-romney.html#comment-13609 Mr. Levy please, contemplating abortion for economic reasons? The very idea is an affront to decency, not to mention a perversion of reason's duty to expound the law written on our hearts. We contemplate murder for economic issues? Isn't that what a hit man does? And jsmitty wants to put the murderer in the victim's chair? From our shared book Proverbs "Every way of a man is right in his own eyes, but the LORD weighs the heart." Jsmitty will not be wieghing our hearts Mr. Levy, let us at least not forget that. - Achilles Thu, 27 Sep 2012 03:52:24 +0100