Comments for What the Election Means at http://www.thecatholicthing.org , comment 1 to 43 out of 20 comments http://www.thecatholicthing.org Sun, 26 May 2013 03:37:12 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/what-the-election-means.html#comment-14349 All serious Christians should become familiar with St. Cyprian's “Exhortation to Martyrdom.” It should be read and re-read. It can be found on the newadvent.org web site and on other sites on the net. Just Google it up. Christianity is no less threatened today than in Cyprian's time. The modern, radically secularized state insists on the Church's idolatrous acceptance of Caesar's usurpation of authority over innocent human life that belongs to God alone. Our silence and complacency while over fifty million children were brutally dismembered by surgical abortion over the last forty years is nothing less than burning incense to Caesar, whose requirement that we do so is just as much an assault on Christianity now as it was in Cyprian's time. We see in the Old Testament that God would hand His people over to bondage, oppression or slavery by the nation whose false God they worshiped. The God of the Old Testament is still God. We have rendered unto Caesar authority over innocent human life that belongs only to God, Who, using all small words so nobody has any excuse for not understanding what He meant, clearly commanded that “Thou shalt not kill.” Anyone familiar with the Scriptures will not be surprised at all that we are being handed over to oppression and persecution by the godless social engineers currently in power. The only way to spare our children that oppression and persecution is to be found in Cyprian's exhortation, our obedience to which will lead to changed hearts, which must precede political success and the return to government that recognizes and respects the God-given, inalienable rights of humanity. Humanity precedes the state and brings it into existence. When enough hearts are changed humanity will knock Caesar off his high horse and put him in his place, reminding him that it is not his to bestow or withdraw the inalienable rights of humanity; it is his only to protect them. That is, of course, because those God-given rights are just that — inalienable — they didn’t come from the state, and the very reason humanity brings the state into being is to protect those rights. This is not a new concept. Re-read our Declaration of Independence. - harry Mon, 12 Nov 2012 16:38:36 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/what-the-election-means.html#comment-14322 Johnny Walker, here's the American Ideal: We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. If we are endowed by our Creator with rights, then doesn't it make sense that we would study the plan of the Creator to figure out what is evil and what is according to His Will? - louise Sun, 11 Nov 2012 11:53:53 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/what-the-election-means.html#comment-14314 We aren't a christian nation. We have many people of different beliefs. Vote the way you wish, and we will do the same, but don't call us evil sinners, because your viewpoints differ from ours. Obama won because Romney was unclear with his message, and most people in this country decided that they believe in Obama's view points more than Romney or the GOP plan. Plain and simple. Just because you believe abortions and contraception is wrong, doesn't mean that everyone else does. That's why you are given a choice. Practice what you want, but don't tell me what to do. That's the American ideal. Freedom to choose. - Johnny Walker Sat, 10 Nov 2012 14:27:17 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/what-the-election-means.html#comment-14312 Thank you Fr. De Vous. I am reminded again why I miss the state of my birth and early boyhood. Here in the Archdiocese of Detroit, demographic and institutional accommodation have meant a well-intentioned but diplomatic posture toward challenging the HHS mandate. I have made observations and arguments similar to yours and have been met with a stony faced non response. The metropolitan Detroit area has become increasingly anti-Catholic in recent years with no small support from liberal Catholics for policies and politics that defy Church teachings. People are already being marginalized within and without the Church. One bishop, heavily involved in immigration affairs, called the mandate a "misunderstanding" in the pages of the Michigan Catholic. During the 2009 debate of affordable care a priest stopped his sermon to chastise those who were "overreacting to the health care bill." It is emotionally and spiritually wearying to sense that you are not welcome. The year of faith will be a year of challenge for me. As for the new evangelisation... at what point will it move on to a new moralization of the faithful regarding the profound and critical moral teachings of the Church? I wish I were less pessimistic. The Bishops'Conference full page ad in the Detroit papers the day after the election was typical of how this has been handled. It pleaded for a restoration of religious liberty from an administration that has shown no intention of moving from its rigid position. And of course it appealed to liberals with language about a committment to social justice. For most liberal-leftists the rhetoric of social justice and the defense of life from birth to a natural death are mutually exclusive and in compatible. The bishops and others continue to ignore this fact. The ad did not mitigate my pessimism or sense of loss. As for Catholic and other American women who support for the president's drive to integrate dependency and the culture of death into American life, it isn't sexism to note a fact. To ignore it is just more demographic pandering. - Graham Combs Sat, 10 Nov 2012 11:40:22 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/what-the-election-means.html#comment-14298 Although I agree with much of what the good Father wrote, I suspect it is inaccurate to claim that none of Obama's major initiatives has broad public support, or that Mitt Romney is "an honorable man of moderate political convictions." Depends on our news sources and whose opinions count. He only played the moderate in the run-up to the election, hoping we'd forget that 47% of us don't matter. I personally could not vote for either candidate without serious moral compromises. It would take too long to explain where I'm coming from, but I assure you it's been a long strange trip from growing up Catholic through losing and then regaining my faith. At one time I would not have questioned the morality of allowing someone to choose an abortion. Now, I can't believe that the Church has a hard time convincing even its own practicing members that it is truly evil. And yet, I am about the farthest thing from a Republican you'll see on these pages. Not enough time or space to elaborate on that either. Meanwhile, don't lose heart. God has His reasons we are not privy too. Perhaps He wants us to re-examine all of our positions and goals, and how they affect real human lives around His world. Look to Jesus, folks, and accept adversity for His sake. Peace. - Andrew Fri, 09 Nov 2012 08:19:45 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/what-the-election-means.html#comment-14295 "But I fail to see how anything Obama has done or is likely to do in four years will in and of itself lead to an increase in hedonism, relativism or materialism or somehow interfere with the Church's ability to preach against it." The HHS mandate itself is an unprecedented monument to hedonism, relativism and materialism. The abortion culture that Obama and his supporters so avidly support is all about hedonism, relativism and materialism. Obama's overall philosphy of the State being central to human existence springs directly from materialism and relativism. It is also obvious that Obama and his supporters want the Church and Church related entities out of public life, so the idea that his re-election will have no impact on the Church is preposterous. - Brian English Fri, 09 Nov 2012 05:52:37 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/what-the-election-means.html#comment-14294 Dearest Jack, I don’t know how to tell you this, but I do with the most charity I can. Your comment is misguided. First of all you are not speaking to a “mr.” but a father, one who told what he did in truth with charity. What you defend with self-righteous indignation is an ideology of the world, feminism. Worse still is that that ideology has its roots in Marxism and worse still is diabolical in all but the slightest grains of truth which are misused as pretext. Please reconsider what you wrote, re-read the article. Have you read The Great Divorce? There is a particularly important scene with a man who has a lizard on his shoulder that must be removed before he can enter heaven. This was very helpful for me to overcome the hold many ideologies of the world that had me in their grip also. To get the lizard off is very painful and requires us to distrust ourselves and to have confidence in Christ. Please reconsider your position, your brother in Christ. Achiiles - Achilles Fri, 09 Nov 2012 05:12:32 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/what-the-election-means.html#comment-14288 As a woman, I agree with this article. Father clearly pointed out that many Catholics - including many women - voted for an liberal agenda. He didn't attack anyone, just stated facts. - Sophia Thu, 08 Nov 2012 19:13:57 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/what-the-election-means.html#comment-14287 Thanks for the article. Trustful surrender to Divine Providence is what we need now. Many people were praying for a Romney win and feel abandoned by God. I do not. I read ALOT! It is obvious that we are living in the great apostasy where everything is turned upside down and it has come upon us gradually! Our Blessed Mother came to warn us many times in the past 200 years since this great apostasy began within the Church. Catholics need to be real Catholics - we do not even know what it is to be Catholic - never mind all the tainted writings of the past 50 years. Go back to Bishop Sheen and even further to find out who we are. We need to find our true identity as Catholic Christians and LIVE IT. May God give us the grace to endure the coming persecution of the Church-God has a lot of pruning to do. Mater Dei, ora pro nobis. - Bernadette Thu, 08 Nov 2012 18:01:18 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/what-the-election-means.html#comment-14284 @tom The issue isn't whether or not a woman can "control her own body". The HHS mandate is a problem because it requires people to violate their consciences. I am a woman who's opposed to the HHS mandate. If I were an employer, I wouldn't want to pay for hormonal contraception, tubal ligations or vasectomies. I'd make it clear to a prospective employee that the health care insurance I'd provide would not include such things. If they accepted the job, they'd have to pay for those out of their own pocket. The issue regarding the infringement of religious liberties is that it extends beyond faith-based institutions. Life is full of compromises and if a job seeker doesn't like what's offered, he or she can keep looking. The pill is not an OSHA issue, either. Being opposed to hormonal contraception and sterilizations, by the way, doesn't need to be rooted in a religious framework. The pill is not harmless and sterilizations are a form of self-mutilation that is elective, not the consequence of a healing therapy as is the case for mastectomies. - Beth Thu, 08 Nov 2012 15:04:02 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/what-the-election-means.html#comment-14283 I was about to apologize to one and all if I had engaged in scathing rhetoric. These are not happy times for a serious Catholic and the signs point to a darker hour yet to come. One easily finds nourishment for one's anxieties. With the best of intentions then, I opened this portal. My apology died in delivery when I glanced at Tom's thoughts above. It's amazing he can get them out with a hook, line and sinker buried up to the gills. I thought I detected a whiff of scathing rhetoric. Somewhere, in a dimension beyond our dreams, St. Paul is wagging a warning finger at me for what I would like to say and at dear Tom for forgetting about the other little body inside the woman, who is not the woman, but someone else. The time to control her body was when it was just herself to consider. But control is what is lacking today, so we must resort to killing for birth control. It doesn't sound as pretty, but that's what it is. - Other Joe Thu, 08 Nov 2012 15:02:56 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/what-the-election-means.html#comment-14281 40% of whites voted for Romney, 96 percent of blacks voted for Obama. If 45 percent of whites had voted for Romney he would have won. Simple math. As long as you're playing identity politics -- grouping people by race, ethnicity or religious belief -- the fact remains that many whites stayed home. The Repubs failed to energize their base. This country is 71 percent white, 13 percent black. Romney should have won easily, but a sizable number of whites are afraid or guilt-ridden and will continue to vote against their interests while blacks have no problem sticking together. Racism works both ways. - Grump Thu, 08 Nov 2012 14:50:17 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/what-the-election-means.html#comment-14280 Tom, (sigh) I assume you are not Catholic. Welcome to TCT. I hope you visit often. To respond to your point...it is not theocracy to outlaw murder. Theocracy would be passing a law that says everyone must believe in the revealed truth of the Blessed Trinity. Do you see the difference? To pass laws that merely put in place the dictates of the natural law to which every thinking person has access with a pure heart...no, that is not theocracy. And by the way, biology has long since established that the new little human being growing in the mother's body is not her body. - Louise Thu, 08 Nov 2012 14:32:05 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/what-the-election-means.html#comment-14278 Progressives were in charge of France during the French Revolution, Spain during the Spanish Revolution and Mexico during the Cristero War. Catholics initially downplayed the gathering clouds in the past, the hierarchy wine and dined with their would-be persecutors and as a result they and their children died horribly. For those on this board that take issue with Father Phillip's dark assessment. You need to read a history book and aquaint yourself of the Vendee, Nationalists or Cristeros,etc and pray you do not suffer the same fate. - Matt Thu, 08 Nov 2012 14:22:14 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/what-the-election-means.html#comment-14277 The author is not saying that this is the end of the Church or God, or that God can't bring good out of anything. But he is making a reasonable assessment of what is to come. America was never a Catholic country. Now that it is not even Protestant, our enemies will be emboldened. It is our fault, all of our sins contributed to the rise of evil. I know that God will prevail, but I'm sad for the world my children and grandchildren will have to live in. - Maria33 Thu, 08 Nov 2012 13:25:06 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/what-the-election-means.html#comment-14276 Tom---It might be time for woman to be more concerned with control of their own SOULS and stop be fixated, no obsessed, with their bodies. The pill has become the new apple of Eden. We are not talking about theocracy, we're talking about saving a Culture, a society. You have trivialized the issue and made it oh so mundane. You can save the sex part, I'd prefer to save the child, the family and the observance of God in the society of mankind. Down with materialism, another by-product of those great movements of the 60s! - ron a. Thu, 08 Nov 2012 13:03:55 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/what-the-election-means.html#comment-14275 @ Brian English I agree in part. But I think my main point was that relativism, materialism, and hedonism are not really things which the political system can really address much at all--one way or another. They are basically attributes of our culture and the people in it. I won't like many of the things Obama does over the next term and neither will you. But I fail to see how anything Obama has done or is likely to do in four years will in and of itself lead to an increase in hedonism, relativism or materialism or somehow interfere with the Church's ability to preach against it. And the relative amount of hedonism, relativism and materialism in four years would have been unaffected by a Romney win, as would the ability to the Church to deter it. As it happens, hedonism, relativism and materialism have increased mightily in America, as they have all over the West, regardless of which party is in power. If we want to do something about it, we really need to ask more fundamental and probing questions of ourselves, our economic system and its relationship to society and so forth and what happiness really is. We'd need to ask whether all the health, wealth and security we've amassed over the last two centuries--of which hedonism and materialism and relativism are byproducts-- is really such the unmitigated blessing that it is presented to be. The forum to do that is not in the context of complaining about the results of a presidential election. - jsmitty Thu, 08 Nov 2012 13:03:07 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/what-the-election-means.html#comment-14274 Absolutely brilliant! - ron a. Thu, 08 Nov 2012 12:25:46 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/what-the-election-means.html#comment-14273 "How is it that allowing women to control their own bodies is "anti-liberty?" Because the child who is aborted has had his or her liberty seriously curtailed. "If Catholic institutions are going to accept federal funds, they have to abide by the laws and regulations of the federal government - that is a long-standing principle in this nation, under both Republican and Democratic administrations." They are performing a public service, so why shouldn't they be reimbursed with public funds? And if the power grab of the HHS mandate is evidence of such a long-standing principle, perhaps you could identify for us some past examples? - Brian English Thu, 08 Nov 2012 12:03:17 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/what-the-election-means.html#comment-14272 "I'm concerned about hedonism and materialism too, as well as relativism. But as nearly as I can tell, the Romney platform had no program aimed at reducing any of these things which could have been implemented, even if Mitt had managed to pull it out last Tuesday." It is not any political party's job to decrease hedonism, materialism or relativism. Political parties should leave the Church and other religious entities free to perform that task. Obama's re-election is a disaster because he has shown himself to be hostile to the Church and seeks to preclude its involvement in civil society, while also appearing to believe it is the government's job to increase relativism, materialism and hedonism. - Brian English Thu, 08 Nov 2012 11:15:58 +0100