Comments for The Key That Fits the Lock, Part Ten at http://www.thecatholicthing.org , comment 1 to 9 out of 9 comments http://www.thecatholicthing.org Tue, 21 May 2013 02:38:25 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/the-key-that-fits-the-lock-part-ten.html#comment-14737 I'd better check my pronouns, I see! Michael: I think you are exactly right. Canaan was full of child-sacrificing; most fertility religions feature it. They were still sacrificing babies in Carthage in the time of Hannibal. The Romans were repelled by it. They did not sacrifice children, though they and the Greeks "exposed" malformed children (sometimes), and, alas, unwanted girls, the idea being that the gods would take them back, or would provide for them somehow. They were not entirely easy in their minds about it, or at least the best among them weren't; see how Sophocles treats the exposure of baby Oedipus. There is human sacrifice of war-prisoners in the Iliad, but it is not necessarily approved, and by the time Virgil reworks the scene in the Aeneid, it is meant to worry us mightily. It does require action, not words, to get things through the thick heads of human beings. How could Abraham have believed it if God had said, "I do not like human sacrifices"? For gods also tell lies ... And the Babylonian gods Abraham would have known were ill disposed towards human beings, most of them; the flood came because the people down there were making too much noise and disturbing some of the divinities in their naptime ... - Tony Esolen Wed, 05 Dec 2012 18:42:25 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/the-key-that-fits-the-lock-part-ten.html#comment-14735 Knox too has Abram tiithing to Melchizedek: 18 Melchisedech, too, was there, the king of Salem. And he, priest as he was of the most high God, brought out bread and wine with him, 19 and gave him this benediction, On Abram be the blessing of the most high God, maker of heaven and earth, 20 and blessed be that most high God, whose protection has brought thy enemies into thy power. To him, Abram gave tithes of all he had won. ----------------------------------- The reverse does not make sense too-Melchizedek was priest, not Abram. - Gian Wed, 05 Dec 2012 17:29:26 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/the-key-that-fits-the-lock-part-ten.html#comment-14734 No, no! Abraham did not receive a tithe from Melchisedek. It was Abraham who gave the tithe to Melchisedek. The Holy Spirit said so- Heb, 7:4-10. - Dan Buckley Wed, 05 Dec 2012 12:41:59 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/the-key-that-fits-the-lock-part-ten.html#comment-14733 Rick: Yes, and building on that point, Abraham's act was one of BELIEF in G-d as a JUST being. The same act by an idol-worshiper would have been one of mere OBEDIENCE to a POWERFUL being. In this way, the story teaches another distinction between the new faith embodied by Abraham and the submission to false gods embodied by other peoples. This lesson is repeated in other parts of Scripture, as various persons (such as Pharaoh) repeatedly ask the wrong question, seeking to know whether G-d is more powerful than other gods, but not whether G-d is more just. - Mr. Levy Wed, 05 Dec 2012 09:21:35 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/the-key-that-fits-the-lock-part-ten.html#comment-14732 Abraham sets before all the good example that we must — no matter what — always trust God. His will, not ours, be done! - Robert Hill Wed, 05 Dec 2012 09:00:36 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/the-key-that-fits-the-lock-part-ten.html#comment-14731 "I take Abraham's statement to Isaac - "G-d will provide the sacrifice" - as indicating his understanding in advance that G-d would not actually require him to kill his son." Yes, I agree...or at least that if God did require the sacrifice, Isaac would somehow be restored to him. Remember: God had already promised Abraham, before requiring this sacrifice, that through Isaac Abraham would be the father of many. Abraham believed that promise. He knew that God would be faithful. He obeyed God's commands to prepare to sacrifice Isaac, knowing that in some manner Isaac would be restored to him, and would live to father children. God's promise required it. Abraham's act of sacrifice is really an act of faith in the restoration of Isaac...and a type of the Christian's faith in the Resurrection. - Rick Wed, 05 Dec 2012 07:51:40 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/the-key-that-fits-the-lock-part-ten.html#comment-14730 A common understanding (at least as everyone I know, including myself, would say) is that Isaac, being Abraham's only son to be sacrificed, parallels very clearly Christ as the Father's only son who would be sacrificed. And I don't at all want to deny or subvert that understanding. But I have long wondered if there might be an additional "picture" here: Might Isaac also be a picture of fallen mankind carrying his burden of sin (the wood), deserving of death in something of the manner CS Lewis describes of Edmund's plight with the White Witch in "The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe"? In this picture, the Ram who is sacrificed in place of Isaac more closely parallels both Aslan's substitution for Edmund's forfeiture and Christ's sacrifice for our sins. Again, only a "wonderment" to ponder, not a hard and fast "belief" on my part, though I think it may have some merit, not sure. - Stanley Anderson Wed, 05 Dec 2012 06:05:29 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/the-key-that-fits-the-lock-part-ten.html#comment-14729 Michael: I am not aware of child sacrifice taking place in Ur - perhaps it did - but it certainly took place in Canaan, and I think you are absolutely correct that G-d was showing that, while He demands utmost devotion, He is just and merciful, not wicked and cruel like, say, Moloch. I take Abraham's statement to Isaac - "G-d will provide the sacrifice" - as indicating his understanding in advance that G-d would not actually require him to kill his son. All this said, however, Abraham was willing to proceed until G-d stopped him, which was at the last possible moment. The knife was raised. Indeed, Abraham even hastened to perform the commandment of G-d (he arose early in the morning, not delaying to start the journey). Abraham's trust in G-d was so great that he would commit an act that appeared to him monstrous - and a breach of G-d's prior covenants - if G-d so commanded. He trusted G-d's eyes above his own, G-d's justice above his own, G-d's mercy above his own. - Mr. Levy Wed, 05 Dec 2012 05:10:24 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/the-key-that-fits-the-lock-part-ten.html#comment-14727 Mr. Esolen: I had an experience during RCIA regarding this very passage. A thirty something couple with an infant/toddler child were entering together and she made the comment to the effect that she hoped God would never require something like this of her, apparently suggesting that if God tried to come between her and her child, it would create a crisis for her in which God might not win out. It got me to thinking about the passage, because I sympathized with her or perhaps my perception of her comment having children myself. Certainly this is helpful in understanding Abraham's crisis as well. However, I have often wondered, as the Bible makes very clear that immolating children or child sacrifice in the ancient world was common (imperial Rome exposing infants to the elements/wildlife, child sacrifice to pagan gods, etc.), whether in Ur, out of which Abraham was called, such a practice was current or widespread. This time of trial for Abraham , as he may have believed the god of Ur was calling him, would explain his reluctance to sacrifice (as Isaac was given to he and Sarah at such an old age, and since they had been trying to have children for so long, and the expectation that this would be required regarding a known practice). God's test then still holds this tension in the foreground, continues to demonstrate Abraham's faithfulness, continues to serve as a foreshadowing of God's sacrifice of His son in Our Lord and Savior, AND demonstrates to Abraham in a very tangible way that the god that was worshipped in Ur in such manner is NOT the God who has called Abraham out of Ur to the Promised Land, and clearly abhors such adoration. This would help explain Abraham's willingness on the one hand, having been conditioned by living in a culture with such practice, and God's being able to demonstrate His LOVE and MERCY in showing that he does not require such sacrifice because He will make just such a sacrifice for all of mankind Himself. Thoughts/comments? - Michael Tue, 04 Dec 2012 23:55:10 +0100