Comments for Signs of the Beast at http://www.thecatholicthing.org , comment 1 to 56 out of 20 comments http://www.thecatholicthing.org Sun, 19 May 2013 14:08:56 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2013/signs-of-the-beast.html#comment-17203 Many raise the question of when and why this problem arose? I agree it has always been around but caution that we do not know how prevalent it was in the past. Sexual abuse, like so much else, was a hidden problem in the past, when such things were normally kept hidden and caused shame to the victim. It happened in families and in communities but was either addressed privately or not addressed at all. Today we live in a society that seeks to bring these things out of the dark. The problem is a certain hostility toward the Catholic Church has led to a preoccupation with clerical abuse as opposed to abuse by other professions and groups. It distorts ones perspective. Are priests more likely to abuse children? I do not know. Are there proportionally more homosexual men in the priesthood than society at large? I suspect so. Are most of the cases of non-pedophile abuse same sex related? Yes. Is there something we are not looking at? Yes, adult sexual relations (male or female) among priests. Is this common? I do not know but I doubt that it is uncommon. What conclusion to draw? Is it a product of a hierarchical male Church, clericalism, celibacy? I do not know if or how much influence these have but the most obvious cause is fallen human nature and the power of sex in it. Men especially are vulnerable to the disordered powers of the libido. It can fixate them on some rather strange things (from bestiality to incest to masturbation to homosexuality to whatever) and usually does so fairly soon after puberty. And such men carry this problem with them wherever they go, whether into the priesthood, teaching or medical profession, wherever. Some control it. Some do not. That is the problem. - Linds Fri, 17 May 2013 10:32:48 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2013/signs-of-the-beast.html#comment-15800 Sorry, all of you who are fixing dates in the last 50 years, I am 80 years old and my uncle who died years ago at the age of 90 (and his friends,too) were propositioned by a priest when they were teen agers! They sent him a box of chocolates filled with laxative and so defended themselves. This has been going on for a long, long time!! - Juanita Tue, 12 Feb 2013 16:52:59 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2013/signs-of-the-beast.html#comment-15744 @ Diaperman: I believe that "Orthodoxy" is about seeing everything through the lens of obedience Christ. There is no understanding possible when looking at the Church through political lenses. - Chris in Maryland Sat, 09 Feb 2013 02:48:53 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2013/signs-of-the-beast.html#comment-15684 Stephanie - I would not characterize a priest who undergoes laicization and subsequently marries as having a "severe psychological abnormality." (I must admit, I laughed a bit at the wording of your comment, because you made "attempting marriage" sound as grave as "attempted murder.") Quite the contrary, as this desire to marry is perfectly normal and human, even for ordained priests. The priest who pursues marriage has a moral quandry given the vows of celibacy that were taken, but the marriage can still be holy and bear much fruit. Anyway, such circumstances are certainly not on par with child-rape! - Betty Tue, 05 Feb 2013 15:05:35 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2013/signs-of-the-beast.html#comment-15681 @ Stephanie Thanks for reminding us of this. Judging from many of the comments there is an undercurrent which wants to blame all the sexual abuse problems on those vaguely termed "liberals" "modernists" "leftists" "homosexuals" and the like. How self-serving. It's all the fault of Catholics that traditionalists already hated anyway. But in truth, there seems to be no evidence at all of a correlation between incidence of sex offenses and lack of theological "orthodoxy" (read "conservatism") of the perpetrators. This is a problem that makes the whole Church (not any particularly ill-favored faction thereof) look bad. - diaperman Tue, 05 Feb 2013 13:19:48 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2013/signs-of-the-beast.html#comment-15678 On the issue of "orthodox" seminarians: The presence of theological orthodoxy does not preclude the existence of severe psychological abnormalities. Since 2003, if you look at the two most "orthodox" seminarians ordained in my diocese, one left the priesthood and married (fortunately in that order), and the other was convicted of child-rape and was laicized. From what I have heard from others, outwardly ultra-orthodox seminarians (particularly those educated in Rome) have an incredibly high rate of attempting marriage. - Stephanie Barlow Tue, 05 Feb 2013 08:34:12 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2013/signs-of-the-beast.html#comment-15677 Sorry I wrote too fast and misspoke - Reisman thought Kinsey *could* have been a point source for the curve. - Sue Tue, 05 Feb 2013 08:21:49 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2013/signs-of-the-beast.html#comment-15676 " be careful that we not assume LA's problem extends to the rest of the country without evidence that it was so" - It absolutely extends to the rest of the country. Google "THE NATURE AND SCOPE OF SEXUAL ABUSE OF MINORS BY CATHOLIC PRIESTS AND DEACONS IN THE UNITED STATES 195O-2OO2" and you will find the full John Jay report. The bell curve is the same for the nation as it is for Los Angeles. On another note, I did have occasion to email Judith Reisman, author of "Kinsey Crimes and Consequences" and much other research on Kinsey and she agrees that Kinsey was a point source for the curve. About the aftermath. The curve should not let us rest easy. There are many many aftershocks that imploding our culture and the family because of the priestly sex abuse. Just imagine, if you can, if the most virtuous person took over from Barack Obama, what a difficult job he'd have, rooting out all of the bad people Obama put in place. - Sue Tue, 05 Feb 2013 08:18:03 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2013/signs-of-the-beast.html#comment-15675 Diaperman: you are assuming the period given to the demon began in the 1880s. There is no need to assume that. Ponder Fatima's date. You also assume that the wreckage of this period does not carry over once the period technically finishes. When a tsunami hits, how does the beach look for a long time afterward? - BradW Tue, 05 Feb 2013 07:27:35 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2013/signs-of-the-beast.html#comment-15674 RIP Bishop D'Arcy who had the courage to warn Cardinal Law repeatedly (in the 1980s!!!) about pedophiles (such warnings went unheeded) and had the courage to lead the boycott of Notre Dame's award to Obama. - Walter Tue, 05 Feb 2013 05:45:55 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2013/signs-of-the-beast.html#comment-15673 Carol Cousneau's comment reminded me of something i read by Bishop Keating who was in the diocese of Arlington a number of years ago warning his fellow bishops that they had a big problem with their vocation directors because he was getting so many applications from men turned away elsewhere for being too orthodox. I suppose not too many listened to him...he also wrote a pastoral letter on courage. Then he was taken away by the Lord. But that doesn't explain Robert's point about the uptick in reported sexual abuse in the 50's in Los Angeles. I guess we should be careful that we not assume LA's problem extends to the rest of the country without evidence that it was so. There's a saying that things seem to start in California and then spread across the nation. Don't know if it is true but maybe only California had the increase in the 50's and it was later in other states. Do you know, Robert? - Louise Tue, 05 Feb 2013 05:33:39 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2013/signs-of-the-beast.html#comment-15671 I was less than impressed by "faithful Catholic women"'s response last year to the Komen, and then the HHS Mandate controversy. It seemed to be a lot of email-grabbing/social media hoopla without any substance. And these were matters in which they had more obvious standing to speak on. No I agree with the faithful Catholic men. Let them lead, and I volunteer Alan Keyes to be right out in front with his sharp, clarion call to the truth. - Sue Tue, 05 Feb 2013 04:40:14 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2013/signs-of-the-beast.html#comment-15670 This is proof that when certain doors are opened that they can be extremely difficult, if not impossible to close, much less close permanently. What has happened here is extremely sad but for those who have true faith, there will be the right type of justice that only God can give. These are the kinds of stories that keep people from the faith. <div style='height:85px;overflow:hidden'><div style='padding:22px; margin:27px;'> </div> <div style='height:363px;overflow:visible'><p> </p><h2>online casino</h2><p><span>The customer service is a very important aspect at an <a href ="http://www.onlinecasinoart.com/">online casino</a> so make sure you can contact them. </span></p></div></div></div> - BenjaminS Tue, 05 Feb 2013 04:33:54 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2013/signs-of-the-beast.html#comment-15669 Some of the comments assume that I advocate a radical femninist solution. Mr. Esolen even suggested that "dratted women" are responsible for a cadre of gay priests. A childish comment. Once again, "women" is automatically equated with "feminism" and advocacy of female ordination, a mistake that occurs all too often in Catholic circles. When I suggested a group of "prominent women", I was not thinking of LCWR types or bomb-throwing feminists. I was thinking more Mary Ann Glendon and Mother Mary Clare Millea-types. In fact, the bishops and the Vatican have called on these women previously to assist the Church in dealing with problems. Why FAITHFUL women? Anyone who is a father knows the answer. When our firstborn arrived, I was utterly awed by a new side of my wife's personality that emerged, one that was instinctively protective of our child. It is a mother's nature and calling to protect children first....without worrying about externalities like the Church's reputation, financial assets or bad publicity. I think an institutional maternal reminder to our bishops and the Vatican would be helpful in resolving this crisis: protecting children comes first. I could imagine how a faithful Catholic woman could have gently suggested that Cardinal Law's Roman appointment in 2002 might not be the best way to honor his episcopcal ministry. Perhaps faithful Catholic women could actually help the bishops to live up to their calling to be, as Mr. Esolen write, "real men" in dealing with this scandal. They seem to be unable to do it on their own. - DS Tue, 05 Feb 2013 03:48:23 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2013/signs-of-the-beast.html#comment-15666 DS's comments on women's insights and intuition are canned feminism and mistaking the particular of the female for the universal human, and possible a solution, and he makes the equally opposite mistake of refering to men, the particular for the universal of human that has failed. It is silly and should not be encouraged. - Achilles Mon, 04 Feb 2013 20:17:27 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2013/signs-of-the-beast.html#comment-15665 Catholic women would do no better - look at Sister Obamacare Carol Keehan, Sebelius, Pelosi. Look at the many women's orders emptied out by the same sexual revolution that took down the men. Look at the Wiccan nuns and lesbian nuns. They have been allowed to get *too much* power as it is. And yet, I do think it *will* come down to women, assuming their rightful place in the home. To teach their children in the domestic church. The real truth about the Church and about man's destiny and Jesus' sacrifice and the almighty gift of Love. - Sue Mon, 04 Feb 2013 18:48:00 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2013/signs-of-the-beast.html#comment-15662 How it happened that many homosexuals entered the priesthood was well documented in Michael Rose’s book, May, 2002, Good Bye Good Men: How Liberals Brought Corruption into the Catholic Church. The book was written after Mr. Rose asked in a chat room if anyone had been turned away from seminary and told he was “too rigid”. He uncovered a conspiracy between liberal nuns and priests in Catholic seminaries all over the country. They successfully conspired to block men “loyal to the Pope and Magisterium” from entering the priesthood, in order to create an artificial shortage, which would lead to ordaining women and homosexuality to be normalized. Rev. John Trigilio Jr., who wrote Catholicism for Dummies and is a well known speaker on Catholic radio, was turned away from three institutions. Order the book on Amazon. - Carol Cousneau Mon, 04 Feb 2013 18:27:35 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2013/signs-of-the-beast.html#comment-15661 DS -- It's the dratted women who have been preventing genuine men from entering the priesthood, favoring instead the guys who like to gaze at naked men in the showers at the YMCA. We are not talking here about protecting "children," but about manhood and giving boys the clear space they need to become healthy men. Everywhere we turn, feminists are waging war against boys -- witness what they're trying to do right now to the Scouts. No, we don't need feminists. They've caused a tremendous amount of trouble. We need men, real men -- and I really cannot think of a problem that women in general know less about, than the problem of turning boys into good strong men. If they did know anything about it, then our inner cities would be regular citadels of manliness. - Tony Esolen Mon, 04 Feb 2013 18:21:38 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2013/signs-of-the-beast.html#comment-15660 Chris's comments on sexuality and DS points on women's intuition and insights are very good points. - Dave M. Mon, 04 Feb 2013 17:15:55 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2013/signs-of-the-beast.html#comment-15659 Chris, This is not feminist ideology. It's common sense and brings two things that are sorely lacking right now to the problem: - Fresh eyes that can examine why existing church structures can't grasp or deal with the problem (over and over and over again). Of course, lay men might have insights here too. The point here is that a reasoned perspective from outside of the clerical culture and power structures is obviously needed. The Pope should want this and ask for it. - A maternal (not feminist) perspective in protecting children. Again, this echoes JP-II. About as Catholic as you can get. - DS Mon, 04 Feb 2013 16:18:58 +0100