Comments for Aging and Office at http://www.thecatholicthing.org , comment 1 to 15 out of 15 comments http://www.thecatholicthing.org Tue, 21 May 2013 18:22:01 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2013/aging-and-office.html#comment-15959 You're welcome, Mr. Grump. Of course, my husband demanded an explanation when he saw that I had written "Mr. Grump" on the calendar. And after 58 years! :) BTW, I included you on the postscript to my comment above. I hope that was all right. And thank you to Mr. Miner for allowing a little correspondence. I will not abuse the privilege. - Maggie-Louise Mon, 25 Feb 2013 12:43:46 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2013/aging-and-office.html#comment-15953 Thank you for your kind words, Maggie-Louise. Surgery went well. I am not quite seeing perfectly clearly now but certainly everything appears brighter and more vivid and there has been a vast improvement. Still need reading glasses and may have to correct for distance but overall am happy with outcome. I appreciate your prayers and sentiments. God be with you and yours. - Grump Mon, 25 Feb 2013 04:10:32 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2013/aging-and-office.html#comment-15951 Graham, where are you getting that about baby boomer sentiment...it's interesting. - Louise Sun, 24 Feb 2013 18:49:42 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2013/aging-and-office.html#comment-15950 Nice article Mr. Smith. A minor quibble.. Your characterization of social security is inaccurate because "life expectancy" incorporates infant mortality. As that has dropped dramatically in the 20th century, average life expectancy has gone way up. But this dramatically overstates how long the typical social security beneficiary can expect to live. In other words, this is a common right wing trope to overstate the (real!) problem that social security faces. But more to the main point...why the hubbub over the retirement?? It is because Catholics see the pope not just as a leader but a father! Presidents and prime ministers retire--but fathers stay on for life. And the idea of a pope serving till death also lent a certain mystique to the office...as though the leader of the Church served at the pleasure of God himself--a claim that we would not make of any other officials. The fear is with this retirement, a lower more functional view of the papacy might take root, which cuts against centuries of conditioning of the faithful. Does that make sense? - diaperman Sun, 24 Feb 2013 18:49:18 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2013/aging-and-office.html#comment-15949 "and that is that some people are old at 30 and others never seem to be old." I would just like to add a note to this sentence. When I recently told a man in his late 50s that I still think of him as a 10-year-old boy, he said to me, "I think of you the same way I think of my parents--old but only in your 40s." If, indeed, I fall into the "old but not old" category, I can only say that this is more of a curse than a blessing. Those of us (and I think I can probably include Mr. Grump in the category, and even our Holy Father) who are old but not old cannot stop caring--about our Church, our society, our culture, our country. We don't want to care because it is painful to care and our caring is wasted in today's world. Our caring is of no value to this world. Our caring is not even understood by this world. But we just can't let it go. We cannot stop caring. Pray for our Holy Father. He cares more than most of you can possibly know--at least for a few years. - Maggie-Louise Sun, 24 Feb 2013 18:14:48 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2013/aging-and-office.html#comment-15946 Perhaps the better example than the late Justice Marshall is the late Justice William O. Douglas -- a man who led a vigorous life and married a considierably younger woman. From my old Ivy League law school connections, he apparently was loath to resign and needed to for his sake and that of the Court. As for Pope Benedict XVI, I don't begrudge him his retirement. As he has said on several occasions he had tried to do so several times. But he thought it unseemly and unfair to his "boss," Blessed John Paul II, to retire to reading and writing while the Pope struggled to fulfill his duty as he saw it. I call that sense of duty on the part of Cardinal Ratzinger laudable indeed. I do think that the one demographic that is surprised, perhaps shaken, even a bit disappointed, is the babyboomers. It has been since our collective childhoods, one thing after another. A shared history eventful in all the ways it could or can be, including profound and troubling changes in all the things we once took for granted: the Church, family, work, education, morals, art, literature etc. - Graham Combs Sun, 24 Feb 2013 16:23:30 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2013/aging-and-office.html#comment-15945 Mr. Grump, how are you? Did you come through your surgery well? My husband and I prayed for you at Morning Prayer, at Mass, and at our evening rosary. I am happy to see you posting again. BTW, I have 10 years on you, but I haven't commented because I could come down on both sides of the issue under discussion here--even as it pertains to my own life. I will make a couple of quick comments, however, and that is that some people are old at 30 and others never seem to be old. In addition, I don't know that there has ever been such a chasm between generations as what we are experiencing today. Our generation (of which the Holy Father is a member) have been so shut out of the affairs of these days that I don't think that we have the resources to address them. Our generation carried forth the values and approach to life, family, even politics I think, that are a continuation of our parent's and grandparent's values and way of life. The people who are our adult grandchildren (somehow we kept our children with us), however, are a completely different animal, simply beyond our reach or our ability to communicate with or to appeal to on the basis of shared values. We have no shared understanding of man and his purpose. I wonder if our Holy Father recognizes that he doesn't have the intellectual or spiritual weapons to bring this situation in the Church under control, that it is best handled by a man who "speaks the language" of the generation whom he is trying to reach--so to speak. I hope you are recovering nicely. - Maggie-Louise Sun, 24 Feb 2013 16:05:27 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2013/aging-and-office.html#comment-15943 Randall, perhaps it is because you are an adult convert. (I love that TCT has so many converts involved both in the articles and the comments section.) Most cradle Catholics were raised on the notion that the pope only leaves through death's door! We trusted that the Holy Spirit would see to it that the pope would always be able to legislate for the good of the Church and if not then the pope would die upon reaching the point when he couldn't. I was never concerned that Pope JPII would reach a point where he could no longer legislate for the good of the Church. Perhaps we were just believing a pious legend, I don't know. It's hard for me to disagree with his decision because disagreeing with even a prudential decision of the pope goes against my grain but I am having a hard time with it. However, I am choosing give it the respect I would give any other papal decision of a prudential nature. But I have to admit more than a passing affinity with the views of Grump on aging. If it were only his inability to travel I would say, just get a skype account or something. In a way, your reflections on the value of the prayers of a pope really are more of an argument for him to stay put because once he leaves his prayers will be those of a cardinal, not a pope. - Louise Sun, 24 Feb 2013 10:22:42 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2013/aging-and-office.html#comment-15941 Joseph Wood: Thank you for your comments. A person with your background should know that many (most?) of the Christians executed today are persons from various faith communities which are not Catholic. They are mostly killed by Muslims who identify them as Westerners. We hear of the Copts in Egypt, for instance, who while in union with Rome, are not being killed because they prefer ad orientem vs. ad populorum. I understand there is a pastor (Protestant?) who is being tortured in Iran. No, the fact that catholic(sic) legislators are voting to support aberrosexual "marriage" and they are not being publicly excommunicated tells the sorry tale. Abortion, ephebophilia, divorce and remarriage without annulment, contraception have all been tolerated by the U.S. Church for decades. The only two items left I can think of are polygamy and bestiality and they are just over the horizon I am sure. Mrs. Pelosi hit the nail on the head when she said: What is the problem with the Catholic Church and the HHS Mandate on contraception? Most American Catholics have been contracepting for decades! Ideas have consequences and the task of putting the genie back in the bottle after the last fifty years is more than our 85 year old Pope can face. This never would have happened under the papacy of Saint Pius X. - Manfred Sun, 24 Feb 2013 09:17:34 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2013/aging-and-office.html#comment-15940 This verse from Psalm 90 needs some tweaking: "The length of our days is seventy years-- or eighty, if we have the strength; yet their span is but trouble and sorrow, for they quickly pass, and we fly away." But the part about "trouble and sorrow" can remain unchanged.... - Howard Kainz Sun, 24 Feb 2013 06:01:51 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2013/aging-and-office.html#comment-15939 Manfred, In your comment, you go too far. People are martyred regularly for their faith in communion with the post-Vatican II Church where Catholics are persecuted around the world. The fact that this exceeds the limits of your imagination is unfortunate, and I would suggest that out of respect for those so martyred, you reconsider. JRW - Joseph Wood Sun, 24 Feb 2013 05:41:43 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2013/aging-and-office.html#comment-15938 What's so special about these arbitrary age "limits" that usually end in 5 or zero? Verdi composed "Falstaff," an acknowledged masterpiece when he was 80. At 100, Grandma Moses was painting. Bertrand Russell was still a thorn in the side of warmongerers at the age of 94. George Bernard Shaw wrote a play when he was 93, and Eamon de Valera was president of Ireland at 91. Artur Rubenstein gave some of his greatest concerts at the age of 89 and Pablo Casals at 88. The list goes on and on of achievements by notables at an advanced age. Just because someone is on Social Security or "retired" doesn't mean he or she can't be productive and contribute to society's betterment. Look at me. I'm a relative spring chicken at 70 and still getting a rise out of a lot of you on TCT. As George Burns once put it, "You can't help getting older, but you don't have to get old." - Grump Sun, 24 Feb 2013 04:12:45 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2013/aging-and-office.html#comment-15937 Dear Dr. Smith, Thank you. Yes. Exactly. - Mack Hall Sun, 24 Feb 2013 03:46:27 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2013/aging-and-office.html#comment-15936 "Benedict XVI has served us wisely and well. I look forward to the wisdom of another book or two,..." Thank you for identifying yourself as a convert , Mr. Smith, as well as your report on geriatrics. Unfortunately, you are way off the mark. If you believe this man is well enough to write books he is well enough to remain as Pope. The Pope is not just another man of retirement age-he is the Supreme Pontiff who agrees to serve until his death.My wife and I took vows forty-six years ago to marry for the rest of our lives and we are still together assisting each other to attain salvation. At times it is difficult.Neither of us would think of telling the other:"it is time for me to go." This resignation is part and parcel of the modern church (sic), a soft, forgiving, understanding, pastoral church rife with effeminates, aberrosexuals and quitters. This resignation is the proper denouement for one of the architects of the Second Vatican Couincil. I will take a leader of Abp. Lefebvre's caliber any time. (P.S. Can anyone actually imagine anyone being a martyr for this new religion?) - Manfred Sun, 24 Feb 2013 02:26:27 +0100 http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2013/aging-and-office.html#comment-15935 Spot on and well written! I too wonder what the fuss is all about? I am sure the Holy Father prayed incessantly about this and I believe his experience and heightened sensitivity and discernment to divine will assures him that what he is doing is altogether proper. Whatever palace intrigue notwithstanding, the Holy Father understands that his condition and abilities against the challenges and pressures facing the Church are not up to the task. Pope John Paul II's age at the time of election provided the stamina to face down the Soviet Union. This time, our next Pope will have to face down the United States and its President. The College of Cardinals knows this and sees this challenge NOT from the present day but also from history going back all the way (at least) to the Wilson Administration when the war on the Church began to take credible traction and we see the effects today. Perhaps the iron hand inside the velvet glove will in short time, be applied to the likes of Biden, Pelosi, Sebelius, DeLauro et al and perhaps the Church will deftly and prayerfully begin to firmly push back. I love this country and will fight to the death to preserve it. Nonetheless, even the Shining City on the Hill is losing its shine simply because it has lost its respect for the source that makes it shine in the first place. - Frank Sun, 24 Feb 2013 00:55:14 +0100