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Marriage and the Court: The Expected Arrives

The “right to abortion” has been celebrated among its votaries as the remedy to that persisting problem in the human condition: the “unwanted” pregnancy, which arrives out of season, at the wrong time, with the wrong partner. Question: when was the last time we heard of a gay or lesbian couple who were surprised that they had “conceived,” without exactly intending it? That brute, obvious fact of nature should have been a telling guide in itself in explaining why a law of marriage has been cast around the relations of a man and a woman.

Chief Justice Roberts took the trouble finally to make that elementary point. But he made it now in a dissenting opinion as the Court took the final step last Friday and installed “same-sex marriage” as a constitutional right:

The human race must procreate to survive. Procreation occurs through sexual relations between a man and a woman. When sexual relations result in the conception of a child, that child’s prospects are generally better if the mother and father stay together rather than going their separate ways. Therefore, for the good of children and society, sexual relations that can lead to procreation should occur only between a man and a woman committed to a lasting bond.

There is the elementary core of the matter. As Ryan Anderson keeps pointing out, the State is not in the business of licensing friendships and other “intimate, caring” relations. But there is a critical need to create a framework of commitment to envelop the begetting and nurturance of children.

And yet, these matters, grounded in the plainest nature, accessible to ordinary folk, are apparently too primary, too simple to sway the mind of a Justice Anthony Kennedy, drawn to theories of persons ever seeking to “express their identity” in the ever elusive search for “meaning” in their lives.

Some of us were clinging to the slenderest hope that this case of Obergefell v. Hodges might have a less astounding outcome. But no one suffered any doubts that Anthony Kennedy was determined to move along the path he had marked off nineteen years ago in Romer v. Evans and reach the conclusion to which that logic inescapably pointed: The aversion to the homosexual life could be explained mainly by an irrational “animus.” The laws that refused to accept marriage for gays and lesbians must be affected by the same irrational animus. Ergo, those laws cannot strictly be “justified.” They cannot rightly claim then the standing of law.

"Adam and Eve" by Rosario de Velasco, 1932 [Museo Reina Sofia, Barcelona]
“Adam and Eve” by Rosario de Velasco, 1932 [Museo Reina Sofia, Barcelona]

We have heard already, and we will rightly hear more, on the point that five lawyers took it upon themselves to recast an institution that has been bound up with the laws ever since their have been laws. In that way, they also removed the subject of marriage from the political arena, where ordinary citizens could settle on the laws they would have governing their lives. That is all true, but it reflects also the reigning vice of “conservative jurisprudence”: the conservatives are far more comfortable talking about “process” than about the substance of the thing.

And so on the day after the decision in Obergefell, the Wall Street Journal complained that that “the Constitution is silent about marriage and social-policy preferences, which are supposed to be settled by the people and the political branches.”   The editors have no quarrel, that is, with the substance of the decision, but with the way in which it was produced.

And yet the Constitution had been equally silent about marriage when the Court struck down the laws that barred marriage across racial lines. It was a matter of explaining why race was not a justified criterion in judging the fitness of anyone to marry. What had to be explained then was why it was not unjustified in the same way to insist that marriage made sense only as the relation between a man and a woman.

At the heart of the matter was that stubborn fact of “sex” in the strictest sense, the sex that has as its telos, or purpose, the begetting of children. It’s the purpose that explains why “Male and female He created them.” What the lawyers seemed always too embarrassed to explain was that there was a natural correspondence between the bodily acts of coupling in men and women and the begetting of the children who would embody, in one flesh, the wedding of that man and woman.

Yes, couples may be childless, and they may adopt children, as gay and lesbian couples may adopt children. But none of that displaces the meaning that must ever attach to that joining of bodies in what is delicately called that “reproductive act.” Any clinician affecting to use that posture as a way of getting “closer” to his patient would be brought up on charges.

Of course it would help here if people had the sense of sacraments – of a larger meaning that may attach to simple, bodily acts. Twenty-five years ago the lawyer-activist Nan Hunter was candid enough to say that the purpose of the campaign for gay marriage was to “expose and denaturalize the historical construction of gender at the heart of marriage.”

After all the litigation, with theories high flown, that question of “nature” remained the core of the problem, and it was the matter that the lawyers found too delicate or too simple to explain.

Hadley Arkes

Hadley Arkes

Hadley Arkes is the Ney Professor of Jurisprudence Emeritus at Amherst College. He is also Founder and Director of the Washington-based James Wilson Institute on Natural Rights and the American Founding. His most recent book is Constitutional Illusions & Anchoring Truths: The Touchstone of the Natural Law. Volume II of his audio lectures from The Modern Scholar, First Principles and Natural Law is now available for download.

The Catholic Thing welcomes comments relevant to columns that are civil, concise, and respectful of other contributors. We do not publish comments with links to other websites or other online material.
  • vishmehr24

    If one goes to the Court, one must prepare to lose. And must be reconciled to have lost. That is, one must respect the judicial decision. It is illogical to say now, that it is tyrannical for five judges to redefine marriage. The time to say that had already gone.
    Indeed, if marriage is a pre-political reality then it makes no sense to subject marriage and its definition to whims of political process which includes judiciary

    • Jeannine

      The defenders of marriage did not “go to the court”: they were forced there by the attack on the reality of marriage. The aggression in the culture wars comes from the other side.
      An evil decision cannot be “respected.” It must be resisted.
      You are quite right that “it makes no sense to subject marriage and its definition to whims of political process which includes judiciary.” Unfortunately, the decision to do this did not come from those who defend the traditional definition of marriage. It came from those who want to redefine marriage in defiance of centuries of both common law and statutory law.

    • givelifeachance2

      We should look critically at the attorneys who were supposedly on “our side” who managed to fumble this case, which should have been open and shut swatted down based on the bigotry of same sex “marriage” denying the child a mother or a father. Pure and outright sex discrimination!

      Why was this ball dropped?

  • Martha Rice Martini

    Just so, Professor Arkes, just so. How can we win the argument if we will not address the matter at issue? How can we win the war if we will not engage in battle? The dissenters remind me of Senator Douglas in the Lincoln-Douglas debates whom Lincoln accused of not caring whether slavery was voted up or voted down, of not caring, in other words, about the nature of the thing itself.

  • Michael Paterson-Seymour

    I was shown some lecture notes for French law students that, for me, sums up the issue far more clearly than any of the Supreme Court opinions

    “It is necessary, since the law of 19th May 2013 (2013-404) opening marriage to persons of the same sex, to distinguish two marriages:-

    1. The union freely agreed to, of a man and a woman in order to found a family. Only this marriage between a man and a woman affects filiation (Title VII of Book I of the Civil Code)” [This is a reference to Art 314 of the Civil Code, “The child conceived or born during the marriage has the husband for father”]

    2. “The union, freely agreed to, between two persons of the same sex, which permits them, within the limits of the appreciation of the interests of the child by the administration and then the judge, to adopt (Title VIII of Book I of the Civil Code) the child of one of them, or a ward of the State or, subject to what is permitted by conventions between states, a foreign child.” [The “conventions would include the Hague Convention on International Adoption]

    « Il faut… distinguer deux mariages » – That really says it all.

    As for Nan Hunter’s remark, in France, we had the Minister of Justice, Christiane Taubira, in an interview with Ouest-France (7/11/2012) say of same-sex marriage that “it is a reform of society and one could even say a reform of civilization, We do not intend to act as if we were only retouching three or four commas in the Civil Code.” If that is how the garde des Sceaux, who is responsible for producing the legislation describes it, perhaps we can be forgiven for taking her at her word.

  • Linda Wolpert Smith

    From the deep well of Jewish wisdom, Shalom Carmy brings forth this teaching: “Misfortune engenders the obligation of repentance …” This must be our consolation and our hope.

    Also this: “When a culture treats the family primarily as an arena for self-fulfillment and self-expression rather than first and foremost as the sphere dedicated to the education of future generations, that culture manifests a weakening of its faith in the abiding value and imperative power of its core beliefs.”

    And this: “If the bonds of faithfulness have frayed, a 5-4 vote in the other direction would not have reversed the ravages of the sexual revolution, the fruit of chronic secular despair under the progressive commodification of late capitalism.”

  • DeaconEdPeitler

    A speaker on the topic of androgyny who happens to be a priest made this point UB a talk given last evening: We need to cease referring to what men and women do sexually as “reproduction” since that is what animals do. Instead, what humans do is “procreate” since we participate in an act that God deigns to share with us.

  • James

    While it is absolutely impossible to envision, let alone hope for such an occurrence, the Pope has the opportunity to pin the ears back on this band of mindless unreflective hedonists as he gives his addresses to the United Nations and the joint session of the Congress of the United States in the Fall, as he greets the President of the United States and his esteemed
    wife, and as he greets Catholics in Philadelphia. Will there be an admonition to resist wanton immorality? Will there be a strong and fierce call to fortitude among the faithful? Will there be a clarion call to martyrdom, if need be? Will it happen? Absolutely not, because he is on this same band wagon as this new age circuit of delusional liars, his rainbow rendered with pastels and not high resolution computer controlled lighting as at White House. Despite the legal system’s revelation of the “horsing around” in the clergy class, ironically it appears the collared do not have the equipment to lay the law down. This is, with some exceptions, a
    gelding class. The “altering” was indeed the purpose of the interminable “outing” we have endured over the past three decades. The only capital sin left is hypocrisy, and only those of a religious bent can be accused of that – as commenters ignorant of the mystery of the faith rant elsewhere. They know who they are.
    In any event, no, there will be no consequences for this despicable, unspeakable, mournful outrage – committed on the social, legal, moral and transcendent levels because we have fallen to a state that none could have conceived. The course to this tragedy was given easement by the debacle known as the Second Vatican Council. Who can any longer deny it?
    Read well this admonition from Bishop Sheen. “Not our bishops, not our priests and religious. It is up to you, the people. You have the minds, the eyes, the ears to save the Church. Your mission is to see that your priests act like priests, your bishops, like bishops, and your religious act like religious.”

    • Diane

      And, How do we make them act like religious? We need to protest in numbers and how will we do that? I think Bishop Sheen is wrong. Only the second coming will set this straight!

      • James

        In a way it is already happening. Most (not all) of those entering the priesthood and religious life are deeply committed to the Magisterium of the Church, though retention rates vary. Those that stay are armored for the fight.
        Should the Synod tank we need to begin to direct our money differently. If your parish or diocese acquiesces to the perversion of the Magisterium presently being calculated, change parishes and diocese if you can. If you can’t “move” rechannel your money to Catholic enterprises that are remaining faithful. No fidelity to the Magisterium, no money. And let them know why you are rechanneling your donation – but don’t tell them to whom, or the recipient of your charity will no doubt be taken to task. Money is a big driver for the hierarchy. Yes, it is that base. I only wish it remained at that level because I think it is worse than that.
        It is painful to say such things, but my confidence in the preponderance of our leadership is nonexistent. Sad and mournful days.

        • Diane

          I already voiced that to several Catholic outlets. If the Church accepts this to keep its tax-exempt status, I will no longer monetarily support it, because I will not worship at the alter of Satan.

  • Stanley Anderson

    I was telling my wife just last night that I have been trying, for some time now, to think of some word to replace the word “sex” that would indicate a deeper meaning of its “fullness”.

    An unworkable (I think) idea is approaching it from the other direction and referring to our current meaning of “sex” as “paper sex.” By that term, I mean something that is only a thin veneer, or a hazy sketch of sex on flimsy onion-skin paper — ie, merely a mental process perhaps accompanied by any kind of physical or visual stimulation (thus viewing pornography is every bit a case of “having sex” in this modern sense as actual intercourse — and it provides a secondary reason for the appropriateness of the term “paper sex”).

    But I said “unworkable” above because it would be virtually impossible (I believe) to replace our current word for that veneer. So instead, we need a new term that reinforces the solidity and fullness and robustness of sex as “life-producing” and “life-affirming” and something that results in actual hard-to-manage and life-plan-disrupting babies with all the REAL love that such things blossom into (I like to say that proponents of the modern view of sex as that thin veneer are the true “prudes” that Christians are often accused of being — the modern “sexually free” person is too afraid of swimming in the ocean of true sex and only dips a little toe into the water and then gloats about doing “anything I want, sexually”.)

    Suggestions of using “Holy Matrimony” with its meaning of “mother-making” or DeaconEdPeitler’s distinction between “reproduction” and “procreate” are good directions, I think, though of course any term will be distorted — “mother-making” distorted into “in vitro fertilization” and “procreate” into whatever. I want to say something like “non-prudish (in the sense I described above), full-on, life-blossoming and life-plan-changing SEX, don’t ya know!” But I suspect that term is probably not concise enough to catch on…

    • givelifeachance2

      Matrimony cannot be morphed into IVF. It takes a father to make a mother.

      • Stanley Anderson

        Nor can “marriage” be morphed into a homosexual relationship for the same reason. And yet here we are. As Humpty Dumpty in Through the Looking Glass says, “When I use a word, it means just what I choose it to mean; neither more nor less…”

    • publius_maximus_III

      Perhaps “God-ding” — in the sense of an “Act of Creation” (a new life, or a deeper relationship), though such a term might sound like nails squeaking across a blackboard to many Christians…

    • carrie

      How about, “generative sex.”

      • Stanley Anderson

        That term certainly broadens the “mother-making” meaning of “matrimony” to (perhaps) include the idea of father-making, but I think there needs to be something even “fuller” in meaning than just the “fertilization” process.

        I’m trying to think along the line of an “opposite” to the term “paper sex” that I mentioned above, something connoting “fullness” — ie, something not flattened (one might pointlessly imagine that one’s “piece of paper” is extremely large compared to other pieces of paper, but that sort of “size” is inconsequential to the “fullness” of a heavy solid object, even if the “diameter” of that solid object is seemingly vastly smaller than the diagonal dimension of the “flat-screen image” drawn on the large sheet of onion skin paper. The solid object would tear the drawing to shreds if it came anywhere in contact with the flimsy paper.)

        But what is that term (probably a pointless exercise I realize)? I think it needs to be somehow poetically or imaginatively evocative rather than “mechanical” sounding. I’m suddenly thinking maybe something along the line of one part of my light-hearted long phrase at the end of my last post above — “blossoming sex”? But I think I’d even like to get rid of the word “sex” with its oh-so-modern-sounding short, blunt tone (just the sound of it has the equally blunt tone of the familiar four-letter word). Maybe “blossoming union” — ugh, not right either. But something along that line anyway.

        And that suddenly brings mind the rather humorous-sounding phrase “garden variety sex”. Laughable because of the connotation of the phrase “garden variety”, but as an image, it actually has some of the meaning I want — ie, life-producing, but requiring the sort of tending and care and order that a garden requires. And with a cultivated sense of beauty. But again, there’s that blunt three-letter word at the end. Hmmm…

  • Rich in MN

    The late Fr William B Smith said some years ago that, should gay marriage ever be legalized, he believes it would be the point of no return, the “event horizon,” for western civilization. Now, with the Catholic Church caught firmly between the twin pincers of the HHS mandate and gay marriage, my mind cannot help but think about how many new lawsuits are being filed this week against the Church and Her allies. To top it all off, even if we were to overturn this decision, the overturning itself would be fraught with grave dangers to civil order. For if our opponents are willing and able to take down Brendan Eich for making a donation to Prop 8, and if they are willing and able to deprive people in Indiana of their right to due process, and if they are willing and able to destroy whomever stands in their way in order to get what they want, can we even imagine what they will do if they are deprived of their newest “right” — the “right” to marry? It would be like us hitting a wasp’s nest with a baseball bat.

    After Mass yesterday, I confessed to my pastor how dejected I was about our country and about our world. He listened to what I had to say and then, in a frank and very confident way, he replied, “God wins.” He proceeded to remind me that, whatever is happening now, whatever injustices are being perpetrated in the name of justice, whatever intolerance is being unleashed in the name of tolerance, whatever hate is being cast in the guise of love, that God sees through it all and, in the end, God wins.

    I really needed to be reminded of that.

  • grump

    Apparently the Pope’s preoccupation with the junk science of climate change and the alleged evils of capitalism preclude any immediate need to comment on the SCOTUS decision. To have to wait until September to hear the pontiff’s thoughts would likely invite speculation that the Vatican does not view the ruling with any sense of urgency.

    I can already envision a parade of lawyers racing to the courthouse steps to file lawsuits against churches who refuse to marry homosexuals, sparking a new round of challenges to religious liberty. Coincidentally, we can expect to hear more calls to end the tax-exempt status for religious institutions that fail to obey the new law of the land.

    Like the old song goes, “You ain’t seen nothing yet.”

    • Ed

      What is most troubling about the court decision, is that the the country appears to be ruled and run by a court of (in this case) of 5 people. What happened to the old idea of democracy? I thought decisions were supposed to be made by Congress.

    • Dave Fladlien

      Well said. Thank you.

    • kathleen

      Listen to the Holy Father’s homily today from St. Peter’s in Rome, from the Mass honoring Saints Peter and Paul. You might reconsider.

  • pnmnm

    I am glad to see someone finally getting to the heart of the matter, which has been absent, as far as I can tell, from the discussion and, apparently, the courtroom. Here, I believe the author remains too delicate still. What has been hanging from the low branches, but ignored, is the contrast between the S-word and the marital act. Religion aside, marriage is organically derived from the act of procreation. The reproductive organs are just that– reproductive. Any other use defeats their function. It is in their nature to fit so that the proper genetic material meets in the correct environment. For the materialist who views man as machine, that is how the machine works. Sodomy is a misuse of the tools. It can never fulfill the function. For the Darwinist, sodomy is a dead end. It prevents the continuation of the gene line. The marital act is the only natural way to produce human life, never mind that it often doesn’t work. It is in its exercise that begetting eventually occurs. Thus, the unique feature of marriage is the marital act, something homosexuals can never perform. Never. Homosexuals can love each other and desire to spend their lives together with the blessing(?) of society just as heterosexuals do. They can set up housekeeping, they can pay for their(?) children’s education and try to be good parents. But they can never perform the life-giving marital act. Not physically, not theoretically. They do not have the plumbing. They do not have the proper complementary cells that could ever produce a unique child. Even heterosexuals with dysfunctional equipment can at least theoretically produce a child. Underlying marriage and children is the marital act that serves as the physical expression of the pair’s love. Sodomy is the physical expression of the homosexual couple’s love. And because it is a fundamental misuse, an abuse of the reproductive organs, it constitutes a lie. It is a mockery of the marital act and hence, same-sex marriage is a mockery of marriage.

    • Kate Pitrone

      Lesbian couples have children. One finds a sperm donor and both raise the child. Are we concerned with protecting the child within that relationship? Otherwise I agree with you, but I have that situation before me and see the utility of marriage in that relationship.

      • Diane

        In the Catholic Church IVF is also against God. Not a Mother and Father. Children need both. I read somewhere how fathers were especially necessary in the upbringing of a daughter.

      • pnmnm

        So two male homosexuals can do the same, impregnate a willing baby donor. The point is that only the two people getting married have the capability to produce a child. The lesbian has to bring in a third party. Sure, she can have a child but not with her partner. They can also adopt. What does marriage do to benefit the children is that situation. Read the stories of those brought up by lesbians. The child still desires a father. What is the difference between the two lesbians living together without being married? They can get divorced just about as easily as one of them can can move out. How does “marriage” help that situation? A civil contract would produce the same result.

        • Kate

          The partner has to adopt the child to get legal custody in case the biological patent dies. I know of one situation where the biological partner left, like ran away, leaving the child in the care of the partner. No adoption, yet. The biological parent’s aged mother sued for custody. The child wanted to stay with the parent or rather person that she knew. People get themselves in such messes. Hard cases make bad law? Yes, better legal options and more respect for natural families would be desirable in society.

  • usnavcad1351

    Homosexuality somehow suggests the word “wrong”! i.e. Not in accordance with what is morally good or right. Deviating from truth or fact. Not correct in action. As a person in error. Not proper! Awry or amiss. Is there anyone out there who can tell me the justification as to why the Supreme Court came up with the decision as to why homo sexual relations are acceptable, right and/or proper. Somehow oxymoron and abomination seem to be more appropriate in predicting our future.

  • John Hallinan

    The bulk of what has been written following this SCOTUS decision is interesting, educational even, but fails to do anything moving us towards our preferred future.

    I wrote as follows on this matter to my Archbishop yesterday:

    “Your Excellency:

    “This is in reference to the June 26, 2015 decision by the US Supreme Court on homosexual unions, a result of which is all states must now equate such unions with ‘marriage.’ In light of previous decisions, this outcome was not totally unexpected, still it arrives with sadness and concern.

    “I believe it of great importance that the Church not be passive in the face of this decision. The overall effect, a new definition of marriage, simply cannot be tolerated. I believe it important the Church clarify in word and action the line between traditional Sacramental Marriage and that now promulgated by civil authority.

    “History teaches that the activists whose work secured this court ruling will not stop with this decision, rather they will continue looking to the media and courts to broaden acceptance and further implementation. The day following this unfortunate ruling, the New York Times published an article titled “Next Fight for Gay Rights: Bias in obs and Housing.”

    “This activism will increasingly focus on lack of movement by religious groups (notably the Catholic Church) in adapting to this newly arrived federal ‘marriage’ definition. Such activism will not involve intelligent discussion and debate, but as in the past rely on ridicule, emotion and sloganeering in a public forum.

    “I would suggest the Church seek to preempt or at least blunt this.

    “Today, within the Church and following Sacramental Marriage, the Priest normally completes records for both Church and the State. This has become somewhat problematic as marriage application forms already in use by the State of Alaska no longer identify “Husband” and “Wife” but “Party A” and “Party B.”
    “By speaking first, now, citing the non-commonality in the definition of marriage, consideration should be given to precluding priests in the Archdiocese of Anchorage from attesting to marriage on behalf of the state. Upholding the Sanctity of Marriage by no longer participating with the state will both make a clear statement about the Church, religious truth, tradition and belief, and also serve as a foundation for a reasoned dialogue.

    “Moreover, I would ask Your Excellency to address this issue to the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops as it is of such broad impact to the entire Catholic Community throughout the United States.

    “I believe it important the Church act expeditiously on this matter.”

    • Diane

      Excellent letter. I wrote my Bishop in February, 2015. He replied telling me that he would bring it up at the Bishops meeting. For all that is worth!

  • Diane

    This says it all. Even as child these words, from the Passion of Our Lord Jesus Christ, always hunted me. When Jesus came across the women who were crying, He said to them “Do not cry for Me, but for yourselves and your children, because the day is coming when wombs will not bear and breasts will not feed”. Soon IVF will require no wombs and homosexual marriage will produce no children. God help us all and Jesus come back soon!

  • tommytucker

    A greater problem is the re-definition of words. Bill Clinton said it depends on the definition of “IS”. The homosexual man is now re-defined as gay, rather than homosexual. The SOTUS defined “states” as a single word meaning the whole US instead of the plural word of the individual state. They have now re-defined the word “marriage” from the union of a man and woman to “civil unions”. I do not see the immediate problem of churches not performing civil unions, but a greater problem in Catholic institutions, such as Notre Dame, not accepting housing for and professors who are in these civil unions. Christianity is under stress, and the muslins and Christ-haters are winning. Thank you..

    • MTZ

      The Catholic churches must do some good and legal screening, which is within the context of their purpose as a Catholic institution. If one does not fit, then one cannot be hired. You will not hire Muslim or a Mormon to teach religion in a Catholic institution or celebrate their faith rituals in a catholic church, and v/v.

  • Alicia

    Does the Supreme Court ruling on gay marriage specify that it is between TWO ( 2 ) PEOPLE ?
    Because if it doesn’t, we’re soon going to see threesomes, groupies and who knows what, who truly ” love ” each other, asking to be married.
    I’d like to see those 5 judges argue their way out of that one !

    • MTZ

      Alicia, you are correct, I’d like to see them argue the next bunch of polygamists who would like to have their group recognized as well. They really have gone to the dogs and those five justices forgot that they are just HUMANS not God. They have given this confused folks a license to question God’s wisdom in creation. How are they going to be pronounced: I now pronounce you man and man, or woman to woman? It cannot be pronounced as man and wife because that is a misrepresentation of their gender, so that will make the marriage a FRAUD.
      Narcissistic and selfish people think they are smarter than God, but little did they know that the Lord has the last say. Humans are nothing but a pile of dirt and bones in the cemetery and it is the soul that gains the eternal life in HELL or in HEAVEN. Be cautioned folks….

  • Dave Fladlien

    This idea is way more “radical” than I usually like to think I am, but I do think the time has come to get government totally out of the religion business. As “grump” pointed out below, that will probably happen with tax-exempt status anyhow, but I think we need to go further…

    I think we as Christians of all denominations should stop getting married. I think we should no longer marry, but leave that field to the government, and instead have a sacrament of “Permanent Public Commitment”, in which 1 man and 1 woman who are each free to marry make a permanent commitment to each other, and which is governed entirely by the laws of the Church(s), not the government. As far as government is concerned, that couple is living together, and has a properly-written living-together agreement (LTA) which simply restates all the key relevant Christian principles which govern their relationship.

    Of course we’d have to make sure it doesn’t violate some law somewhere, I’m not a lawyer, but I do think it is time to look into it, find a legal way to do it, and make what we used to call marriage a religious, not a political, thing.

    And yes, I’m serious…

  • Manfred

    From the Catholic perspective, two entities were destroyed last Friday: The Modernist victory over the Church of Christ at Vatican II, and the “Church of Nice”. The windows were thrown open and the world was invited in. It took fifty years but the World has just devoured it.
    Footnote: Mr Kainz reintroduced the subject of Fatima yesterday. One of the most pertinent statements made by the Virgin certainly applies at this time-“Most souls are in Hell because of sins of the flesh.”
    Amen

  • Fleshman

    So is it time yet Dr. Arkes to admit that the 40 year old strategy which you have championed of electing Republicans to reshape the high court has failed miserably? Both because there is no longer any pretense of a silent majority of Christians being thwarted by liberal justices and because the GOP over time is just as influenced by the overall cultural drift of the country as the Democrats.

    It is a new country now and we are silly to count on the GOP to protect us from it.

    • pnmnm

      Got an alternative?

  • Diane

    What is Johnathan Morris doing at that gay parade. He said he was near, but he was probably there. Two men spat on him. He said that he deserves worse. I hope those two men don’t have aids! He told the audience on Fox News that he has a sister who is a lesbian and that she was against gay marriage. I wish he was not the spokes person for the Catholic Church on Fox News because he never seems to say the right thing. It is much better when Fr. Gerald Murray is the spokes person.

  • Dave Fladlien

    There’s one difference: matrimony as we do it now is both a religious and a political (secular) thing. Marriage licenses, etc. I’m proposing to do away with the secular part. As I said, it will take some legal research to be sure we aren’t violating some law somewhere, but assuming a legal way to do it is available (and it seems to be legal to live together right now), then I think we should — legally speaking — just live together, not get married, and be married only in the spiritual / religious sense.

    If we do that, then only the Church(es), not the government, has any say in what we do…

  • pnmnm

    My pastor and his visiting priest friend both spoke in the pulpit for our religious freedom. They are sponsoring a fortnight for freedom that ends July 4th. It is accompanied by 24/7 Eucharistic adoration and a special prayer at every mass. This is our second year doing this. I just wish more were doing the same.

    • Diane

      You are very fortunate to have a pastor like that. They should all be instructed, by their Bishops, to do this throughout the Country. It is time for the leadership to speak up like Billy Graham and Pastor Jeffords did. They are not afraid so why is our leadership and priests, pastors so afraid? Or are they complicit with the entire gay agenda?

    • Esperanzaypaz

      All parishes throughout the United States were to participate in a Fortnight for Freedom ending on July 4. It was proclaimed by the USCCB. Sadly, I couldn’t observe the faithful flocking to prayer for our religious freedom in droves… Even the closing Mass at the National Shrine in DC, a diocese with well over half a million Catholics, wasn’t standing room only… It is our very own lukewarmness that allows our freedoms to be exploited and eroded.

  • MTZ

    I think what each church must do is to require any candidate for marriage in their congregation to pass a thorough screening by requiring them to attend several weeks or months of workshops which is concentrated in their specific Christian teaching. Those that fail, cannot be married in that church, after all it is for the propagation of the faith and not just a ceremony. It is a lifetime commitment to the union of marriage and a lifetime commitment to nurturing of that faith in the family. This will eliminate those that would like to just make a fancy ceremony and make a mockery of the sacred union of marriage. They can go to a judge or whoever want to marry them, but not use any church for their own selfish purpose. We still have freedom of religion and the Court cannot control any church how to practice their religion, be it in MATRIMONY, BAPTISM, CONFESSION, COMMUNION or CONFIRMATION, because they are all SACRAMENTS IN THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH. One day, God will show all these CONFUSED people the truth of their existence, and it might be too late to repent.