In the same book-length interview in which Pope Francis says he was “used” by forces in the 2005 papal conclave, he describes Cardinal Robert Sarah as “a good man,” but also says that during his tenure as prefect of the Vatican’s liturgy department, Sarah was “manipulated by separatist groups.” And the “difficulties” caused by Gänswein, Benedict XVI’s personal secretary, were why Francis exiled the archbishop to Germany without an official position.